rrTV-PHOTO   New HD TV
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 595 ONLINE 20 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
7 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ]11326 viewsTOPIC CLOSED
CanoMod . Futaba-RC . A Main Hobbies

.
.
Computer Flight Simulators > Anyone else got a letter from Reflex?
 
 
600rr
Senior Heliman
Location: london.united kingdom

lets be honest here,the only reason these cables were purchased was to run pirate copies,just be honest.
xtr,g3 are expensive,maybe more than they should be BUT, i would like a audi rs4, but i can not afford one.so it is not right to get a set of keys cut and drive around in my brothers with out him knowing
and now i have run out of petrol it is no good me complaining
03-21-2006 03:04 PM
 
 
webbhost
Key Veteran
Location: england - Leicester

Quote 
Webbhost, that is ridiculous!!! Should any vendor be forced to go bankrupt because their property got stolen and they're trying to fix things up?! NOT.


No, but then again they shouldn't "fix" things up by stealing many other peopls property AND their money in the process.

Quite honestly how many people do you think are going to own upto it?? Most people are more likely to say ive sold it on.

I may not have one of these cables, and i have a retail package of XTR, but even then it *** me off that someone should go and do that.

The people that bought it were not aware that they were "breaking the law" by purchasing this interface as the vendor didn't say that.

Reflex are victimising people by suggesting they have bought this for uses other than free simulators.

meh
03-21-2006 03:05 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
helihopper
Heliman
Location: Germany Bavaria

We kicked Reflex from our board www.rc-heli-fan.org because of big trouble with mr.nitschman.

We changed the board rules an now every tread about reflex is closed immediately.

Nitschman wrote some mails to our webmaster and threatened him closing the board. We dont like to run into trouble, so reflex became banned. This is not afraiding, but obviously necessary.


I sold my reflex and bought g3



Cu

helihopper
03-21-2006 03:29 PM
 
 
Satoer
Senior Heliman
Location: Zaandam, the Netherlands

Please mail me you’re addresses. I will sent you a settlement proposition. I’ve just programmed a program and you’re computer (hardware) makes it possible to run my program illegally!! I don’t care if you actually run this program. You have a computer (otherwise you couldn’t be on this forum) and that’s enough for me!
Please sent me you’re computer and pay a sum of money on my account or ill sue you!
03-21-2006 03:31 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCHeliJim
Elite Veteran
Location: Orem, UT USA

I will tell you one thing. I am glad I never bought this cable, or any other one like it.

The Reflex people have a right to demand the cables back, as they were found to be illegally made - but to demand monetary compensation from every person that bought this cable on top of that is just as GREEDY and IMMORAL as the people that used it for Reflex.

Going after pirates is a good thing - but adding the monetary request for damage that is unproven from the end user is wrong.

If the cable had been designed to ONLY work with Reflex and NO OTHER PRODUCT than they would have a point in asking for the money. But this cable, regardless of how it was used, was capable to be used on other products.

Reflex, do the right thing and demand all the cables be returned, but retract the silly monetary request - you should have already received the monetary damages from the manufacturer, if you didnt - find a better lawyer.



Go Fly, Have Fun!!
-Team Quick UK
-Team RCHeliMag
03-21-2006 03:41 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Tuinkabouter
Heliman
Location: Groenlo, Holland

Reflex HAS received money from the producer.
03-21-2006 03:46 PM
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

Folks, try to understand that if a court of law has decided that these cables are illegal, then anyone that purchased one (whether knowingly or not that they violated copyright laws) is NOW aware that they're illegal (the letter from Reflex). That does not give Reflex the right to demand money from the owner of such a cable, however it does provide them with legalese to ensure the cables no longer exist. They can demand the cables be destroyed or sent to them, however the only part that I would fight in court, if it came to that, is the one demanding money.

Seek legal advice!
03-21-2006 03:47 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gof407
Heliman
Location: Nederland

Ofcourse we are against piracy

I am against piracy, and for good software you should pay,
But going after the people with a demanding letter after Relfex got the information they got... isn't right. Really stupid marketing.... I say stupid, because it is, why?

You could send a letter and let those people know and tell them that they possibly bought a product from a company that wasn't allowed to make and sell that product to customers.
Sounds better he!

Refelx could offer for with a small charge (the people will never pay again the full price) to trade-in that cable for an original one.
Sounds even better.

To get those customers back, they could offer 30% discount for the next version Reflex Next generation, or what ever...
Yes Reflex, you got those people back, your lost customers.... But you decided to play different...

Wel, what they did is bad marketing... next time better folks, if exist..
03-21-2006 03:55 PM
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

Well put oneinnesja!!!!

Reflex should step up and correct their mistake (letter wording).

A new letter should be sent to all that were sent the original. IT should start out by APOLOGIZING for the previous note, it's tone and unneeded threats. It should cite the court case information (reference numbers, etc.) and outcome, as well as include contact information for folks to verify it's validity. It should instruct folks to send any cable(s) to Reflex (at Reflex's own expense).

In addition, if it were my company, I'd offer to reimburse each person for some part or all of the original purchase price. Now, assuming Reflex had been a bit wiser during court proceedings (better lawyer), they should have made this a requirement for the defendant as part of any restitutions. It may be too late now, so they (Reflex) are going to have to swallow their pride and take the loss.
03-21-2006 03:57 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gof407
Heliman
Location: Nederland

@ RCfan

You are right, they could win a lot more customers, they could win sympathy from the people, but just what as i said, bad marketing...
If they want to make-up good, they have to some with something REALLY good... with real good offer... atleast to those people who received that letter...
03-21-2006 04:03 PM
 
 
erwin
Heliman
Location: Netherlands

I couldn't say it any better than gof407 and RCfan.
So I'll wait for the next letter from Reflex with a better proposal.
Perhaps I will buy the original.

Otherwise, sue me!
03-21-2006 04:10 PM
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

gof407, I read your post after I finished mine. You make good points as well. I'm sure there are many ways in which Reflex could have made this into a POSITIVE instead of the negative it's clearly become (caused only by their arrogance and improper letter).

Hopefully Reflex will heed some of our comments and make things better. They have a tough road ahead of them, though, as they're now in damage control mode and no one but themselves know if they have the will to make it right. If they were to continue on with their current (negative) perspective, they should realize that the only folks they're hurting is themselves. They may be one of the best sims currently out there (IMO), but they certainly are not the only one.
03-21-2006 04:15 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Higgy
Heliman
Location: N/W Germany

Hi,
EDIT , thanks for edit , Tim

regards to all users, Jens from http://www.rc-sim.de
03-21-2006 04:16 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Wa11banger
Elite Veteran
Location: Huntsville, Al

Sorry sounds like the efforts of a desperate company to make a measly attempt at surviving another year. Hmm why not just tear apart the dongle find the weak code. Bring out a "Must have update" and have that update contain changes to the program code that the reflex dongle does support but the fake dongle if detected disables the software. Much more efficient, and doesn't make a rukus out of themselves. If I had bought one of those cables good Freakin luck getting either the cable hell no not the money lol.. LOSERS!!

Just my .02
Rick

Proud member of the Quick UK, Duralite Flight Systems, V-Blade, KBDD & Compass Model teams
03-21-2006 04:21 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rhf_tracer
Heliman
Location: Hamburg, HH - Germany

Quote 
A new letter should be sent to all that were sent the original. IT should start out by APOLOGIZING for the previous note, it's tone and unneeded threats.

That's not their way to argue.

Anything else was already addressed by Helihopper before.

Take them as they are, or ignore them.
03-21-2006 04:29 PM
 
 
bagobitz
Veteran
Location: saddleworth,lancs,UK

WHAT A SORRY MESS.... Kurt, I have tried to make allowances that as a foreign resident, English is not your first language...SO please be less rude, agressive and arrogant in your posts....Ilurked for a long time before joining this board, and have always found your attitude offensive...reflex will be pleased to know that you helped me decide on G3

With ref to these ALLEGEDLY illegal adaptors, I suspect the onus of proof, that you intended to illegally use their product is on the copyright owners (reflex)
I think first..they have to PROVE you bought it(name on a mailing list is only circumstantial)
second they have to PROVE you bought it to steal their intellectual property.
thirdly they have to PROVE you DID steal their Int. Prop.

Owning a cassette -radio has never been a crime, likewise a VCR...the PRIME purpose of these is to record COPYRIGHT MATERIAL OFF_AIR
the burden of proof was overwhelming so the law was modified to allow "own use" recording

I think these bully boys are flying a kite...if the cable has a chip or circuit which is PROGRAMMED....cut it out and send it to them NO MONEY...the cable and plugs,transistors/resistors/capacitors/inductors..are STANDARD ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS...to claim them would be tantamount to punitive damages...they have not provided you ANY evidence that they Either have a valid case in your domicile, OR any legal right to the goods/money they are demanding, or judgement against you....until they can prove there's a case to answer,they're little more than nigerian-scammers with a mailing list.

I consider this ,in itself,is possibly an illegal activity.
send a return letter demanding they prove their allegations .forget to stamp it. treat these people with the same courtesy they extended to you.


legal G3..no tv...no video...no cassette/cd/walkman etc.
NO copyright infringement ever knowingly committed. NO REFLEX NOW OR EVER
03-21-2006 05:00 PM
 
 
hingus2000
Key Veteran
Location: West Midlands UK Posts: 75069

They aint got a legal leg to stand on.

What are they going to do...extradite you?

The person who made, and sold these dongles is the one in trouble, no doubt he will be sued and punished, and will have to pay compensation to reflex.

But reflex coming to ask for the dongle back, AND you send them money, that in itelf sounds like extortion.

Write back requesting the details, and under what section of law/court ruling they are have the right to request them back PLUS money under. (maybe it would be more understandable if they were just requesting you send the dongle back).

Swiss guy....you are off your head. You are blindly supporting reflex without any background (you blatently have some affiliation).

I kind of wish I had one of these dongles, because I love a case like this...Id cherish the battle.

Tom

T-Rex SA, Anodized Head, Gy240, 3s TP 2100mah, Align 35A ESC, 430L Motor
03-21-2006 05:07 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
hingus2000
Key Veteran
Location: West Midlands UK Posts: 75069

Just add something.

I think it is true that the people who bought this dongle want to use it for reflex. Admittedly that is wrong.

However, no matter what the MORALS behind it...LEGALLY it is not their problem. Certainly in the UK.

Tom

T-Rex SA, Anodized Head, Gy240, 3s TP 2100mah, Align 35A ESC, 430L Motor
03-21-2006 05:10 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Tuinkabouter
Heliman
Location: Groenlo, Holland

In case this gets removed it's copied local here

But that reflex wants to get paid twice was already mentioned before

However, nice background information.
03-21-2006 05:22 PM
 
 
hingus2000
Key Veteran
Location: West Midlands UK Posts: 75069

Agreed, sounds like a text book scare tactic!

Do you think they can afford to take the no doubt hundreds of people who refuse to send them back to court??

They are clutching at straws seeing if they can recoup a bit of money.

Tom

T-Rex SA, Anodized Head, Gy240, 3s TP 2100mah, Align 35A ESC, 430L Motor
03-21-2006 05:23 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
7 pages [ <<    <     1      2     ( 3 )     4      5     NEXT    >> ]11326 viewsTOPIC CLOSED
Boca Bearings . Modefo's RC Helicopters . XHELI.COM

.
.
Computer Flight Simulators > Anyone else got a letter from Reflex?
 PRINT TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Saturday, November 22 - 3:04 pm - Copyright © 2000 - 2008 runryder.com | email | link to rr | runryder needs cookie