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Computer Flight Simulators > Anyone else got a letter from Reflex?
 
 
Tuinkabouter
Heliman
Location: Groenlo, Holland

for the record, I received the same letter yesterday. So if I create a program, lets say a text editor that can save to word format, without doing reverse engineering, I can be punished ?

Quote 

You can buy plenty of input-to-gameport devices for FMS or MSFS or whatever


This is just that kind of dongle with some additional features. Not to gameport, but to USB with several kinds of signal processing for different brands of Tx's and the correct Futaba connector for my case.

Do you own such a dongle ? Never seen a computer shop which sells futaba-to-usb dongles.
03-21-2006 10:49 AM
 
 
Colibri
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands

SwissKurt,

Are you related to Reflex in any way? (I thought they were from Germany) or do you just have a very strong opinion about this issue?
03-21-2006 10:53 AM
 
 
Tuinkabouter
Heliman
Location: Groenlo, Holland

The producer of the dongles has been in court for it, and already paid for the dongles, now all customers have had this letter to pay AGAIN AND send it back. And the count is wrong, some people are taxed for 2 dongles while they only have one. So the Reflex information is not correct. Let them first do their homework.

How do you like it when you have to pay speed exceedments twice and they take your car ?

You CAN use the dongle to run Reflex, but you dont HAVE to do it.

And I don't take it to court, because in the Netherlands we have some privacy rules. They can't search your house without an legal order for it. For belgium I don't know, but for the netherlands you can't use the adresses as evidence. The only thing this letter tries is to scare you.
03-21-2006 11:19 AM
 
 
DasNordlicht
Heliman
Location: Belgium

Of course you CAN use it with other, free Flight Simulators, but what is the reason to pay more than around about 60,- Euros instead of 30 for a legal one?!?
The only reason is the wish to use illegal copies of a software you cannot, or do not want to, afford. Anything else is nonsense...

Why don´t you funny guys start to argue against the producers of this pirated hardware?!? Really funny! If anybody really thinks, that he did not know what he bought, he has the possibility to sue the producer of this falsified interface. Instead of that these guys are protected by this community...
Why don´t you guys thank Reflex that they did not take the whole crapp to their lawyers with additional costs?!?

What a wonderful world!
03-21-2006 11:38 AM
 
 
Tuinkabouter
Heliman
Location: Groenlo, Holland

Still Reflex has to prove i'm using it especcially with Reflex. Reflex has to prove we're guilty...we don't have to prove we're not.
03-21-2006 11:38 AM
 
 
DasNordlicht
Heliman
Location: Belgium

@Tuinkabouter:
I just had a smalltalk with one of the Reflex guys and I am sure, they will prove it...
Well, I will pay the Euros and send the interface back.

By the way - I have bought an original Reflex anyway, so I do not need the falsified dongle anymore... ;o)
03-21-2006 11:43 AM
 
 
Tuinkabouter
Heliman
Location: Groenlo, Holland

Do you have a copy or something that proves you bought it before the letter you received is dated?

Do you have a transscription of the talk ? Maybe useable.
03-21-2006 11:50 AM
 
 
Tuinkabouter
Heliman
Location: Groenlo, Holland

It's not illegal to have it, only to use it. And they write it themselves:

(...)you are harming this rights by using falsified interfaces and / or selling them to third people(...)

One big difference according to the stolen watch: The watch is stolen, this is built, not stolen from reflex. I bought a product and paid for it.

Do we have to charge all manufacturers of replica car spare parts ?

But I think we're not getting on the same line and everything is said now so let's talk about flying
03-21-2006 12:41 PM
 
 
webbhost
Key Veteran
Location: england - Leicester

if they were so bothered, they should have used CD Keys like G2. Its their own fault that you can simply pop in a CD without verification and install.

Quote 
What do you write? " Works with Reflex but you are not supposed to use it." ?!? As I said: crap.


No, you write its an easy option for learning, as it works with many of the free simulators.

You could also argue that you are using it to replace a damaged interface. As the person said who started the thread, they LEGALLY own a simulator, and thats the one they use it for.

meh
03-21-2006 01:25 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Colibri
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands

It's getting hard to see the constructive discussion through al the 'crap' that seems to be flying around.

Obviously Reflex can charge whatever they want for their software and that can never be a reason to just steal it because it is too expensive. It is your choice to buy it or not and it is not like we need it like bread or medicine.

The point discussion should be whether or not Reflex has a point. I bought the cable for non Reflex use and still they feel that I did them wrong. That doesn't make sense to me. In fact they don't even care if I've already bought Reflex legally because they sent the letter without verifying that. So they don't care.

Also there is no such thing as bad advertising. At least they got us talking about Reflex.

Still I think the situation sucks and I'm disappointed in Reflex for not trying to deal with this in a more customer friendly way. It's not like we are all the thieves they say we are.
03-21-2006 01:31 PM
 
 
webbhost
Key Veteran
Location: england - Leicester

i guess if reflex decide to sue you, you should turn around to the shiop that sold it you and sue them for not telling you there are any legal implications with it?

i suppose realflight should also sue everyone for buying reflex, "just incase" they are using the interface and a bit of software programming to make their controller work with realflight instead???

meh
03-21-2006 01:34 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Andi G
Veteran
Location: Switzerland

As far as I know any software or hardware made to get around copy protection is illegal in Germany. You own a cable that works around the XTR protection so they probably have good chances against you in court.
I'm quite sure they need a prove that you own one (ie the police has to search your house and find it) though. In your case I'd start with editing the posts here

What might help is that
- you bought it to use your legal realflight sim with usb instead of parallel
- you don't own a pc capable of running Reflex.

Apart from that it's a shame that they are after people that didn't try to steal their products like in your case. Maybe they do it to scare people off (similar to the music industry).

Btw Swisskurt were are you from? (you can pm me the answer).

Andi
03-21-2006 01:39 PM
 
 
Tuinkabouter
Heliman
Location: Groenlo, Holland

I'm not living in Germany...
03-21-2006 01:43 PM
 
 
Andi G
Veteran
Location: Switzerland

which makes it even more interesting... I wonder which court is responsible for the claim then.
03-21-2006 01:47 PM
 
 
Colibri
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands

Quote 
DONT BUY REFLEX,

I didn't but I still ended up getting screwed by them.
03-21-2006 01:53 PM
 
 
webbhost
Key Veteran
Location: england - Leicester

Quote 
By the way, why don't you bring your brilliant idea to the attention of your homegrown G3 maker instead of paying what for G3 now?


No you see thats the beauty of it. ALthrough people dont tend to buy the interface for piracy, (from what ive heard), to Realflgiht its NOT A PROBLEM!

Why? Because they were a damn lot more careful with their copyright protecton, and you have to register your CD Key with their servers to get any upgrades or internet play. You also need it when installing.

Now lets look at reflex... o yeah couldn't have been any more careless could they. You have no CD keys whatsoever which is your own fault for highly compromising your products.

In effect i could go down to my local hobby store today, get a new USB interface and Wire (without CD), and give it my friends letting them install it on my CD.

meh
03-21-2006 02:21 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

Look folks, the facts are simple::: the cable is illegal; it was created to circumvent several manufacturer's copy protection, violating their intellectual rights. Obviously Reflex has taken on the "source" of these cables in court and won; now they're trying to recover losses due to the sale of the illegal cable (probably because the defendant wasn't able to pay up).

Personally I feel it's wrong of Reflex to go after customers, but then again, the burden of proof lies solely on their shoulders, not the customers. The tone of the letter posted earlier is very rude and at tad bullyish, IMHO. The letter could have been written in a much nicer way!!!

Assuming Reflex does make true on their statements and go after customers that do not return the cable, I don't see how far they'll get, though, since they would have to prove that the customer purchased the cable with the intention of using it on a pirated version of their software; that is impossible (unless the sim has a built-in "call-home" feature; and if doesn't now, next update probably should/will!). Now, if you have one of these cables, and officials do come into your location and find Reflex software installed on one or more computers, burden of proof quickly changes to the customer. I'd hate to be in that position; so instead of $72, you'll probably be paying a lot more and possibly staying in some jail for some time.

Again, my recommendation to those that have received a letter is to seek legal advice before taking ANY action (one way or the other).
03-21-2006 02:29 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Tuinkabouter
Heliman
Location: Groenlo, Holland

Let the officials come.

//Edit:

And how can Laurens return 2 cables if he only has one ?
03-21-2006 02:32 PM
 
 
webbhost
Key Veteran
Location: england - Leicester

hope it sends em bankrupt, i wont be recommending reflex any more

meh
03-21-2006 02:35 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

Quote 
And how can Laurens return 2 cables if he only has one ?


If he has proof, shouldn't worry. Still should seek legal advice.

Quote 
hope it sends em bankrupt, i wont be recommending reflex any more


Webbhost, that is ridiculous!!! Should any vendor be forced to go bankrupt because their property got stolen and they're trying to fix things up?! NOT.

IMO, their intention with the letter seems more of a scare-tactic, i.e. some folks will quickly respond positively to it to avoid any legal litigation, while others will react like some folks on this thread have. Reflex will then decide whether they want to pursue further action on them as they claim in their letter. They definitely should have handled the letter matter in a more professional manner, though. However, that's no reason to diss the product.
03-21-2006 02:52 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Computer Flight Simulators > Anyone else got a letter from Reflex?
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