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Real Raptors . Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC

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Main Discussion > Is different gyro gain needed for different flight modes?
 
 
sir777
Senior Heliman
Location: Moscow, Russia + Lloret de Mar (Girona), Spain

I mean, do you need different gain setting for, let's say, NORMAL mode with 1650 rpm and for IDLE-UP mode with 1950 rpm. Does it matter?
02-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
carcrasher
Key Veteran
Location: east coast

no. use the same gain for every flight mode.
02-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
BlakeMcBrayer
Elite Veteran
Location: Georgetown, Ky

I fly all modes in heading hold with the same gain for each.

I can see where different gain levels could be useful on a rate (non HH) gyro between hovering, forward flight and 3D flying. As each would have different levels of tail holding authority needed on the heli.

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Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!
02-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
sir777
Senior Heliman
Location: Moscow, Russia + Lloret de Mar (Girona), Spain

Ok, thank you, guys. I am using HH mode all the time, so it doesn't matter. I just thought, that higher tail rpm (because when you add more headspeed, you also add a lot of rpm to the tail) will give you more "holding power", probably, and that's why less gain is needed. But now I am clear about that.
02-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
BlakeMcBrayer
Elite Veteran
Location: Georgetown, Ky

No problem, we don't mind helping, it's what RR is about.

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Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!
02-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

Quote 
can see where different gain levels could be useful on a rate (non HH) gyro between hovering, forward flight and 3D flying. As each would have different levels of tail holding authority needed on the heli.


If I were setting up a contest ship, I would use a lot of gain for the ground maneuvers and then vary the gain in each flight mode depending on what I'm doing. If you look at Hashimotos Stylus setup you can see the wide variation of gain settings from the ground to upstairs. This is due to the fact a lot of FAI pilots utilize a 2 speed setup where they run a lot of gain on the ground because of the lower headspeed. Then, when the headspeed is kicked up you need to lower the gain to keep the gears in the machine for one thing and to avoid having to change rates a lot from flight mode to flight mode.

It's not uncommon to see gains in the 80-100% regions on the ground and then dropped back to 50% for aerobatics with the capability to be in either rate or HH user selectable.

TM
02-19-2006 Over year old.
 
 
mikep6b
Heliman
Location: New Zealend

Ok still try to make sense out of all this. HH in all flight modes this I have set up but what about autos. A lot of people have said drop gain to 20%.
Opinions appreaciated please.

On the 7th day God went flying
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
BlakeMcBrayer
Elite Veteran
Location: Georgetown, Ky

I do my autos in the same mode and same gain as I fly. But, I could see where the lower gain would soften the tail and let it use less headspeed engery?????

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Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

You can turn the gain off in an auto and you won't be able to tell the difference.

TM
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
BlakeMcBrayer
Elite Veteran
Location: Georgetown, Ky

Ya know TMoore,

That might be worth a try, as one can't have too much reserve at the bottom, even on a 90.

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Don't come off the throttle untill you see your GOD!
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

Whether or not you have gyro gain on or off, HH or rate mode won't change the amount of inertia you have at the bottom of the auto. Gyro gain is a minimal influence. There are a lot of other factors that come into play than gyro gain.

Your technique is the most important aspect of doing an auto. Ask dudes like Wayne Mann, Dwight Shilling, David Harkey or Ron Lund.

TM
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

Dont know about no Gain in Throttle hold,the TR still has to hold the tail from turning even if you give it input. Why not let the gyro do it for you automaticly?. I use more gain in normal with the lower head speed than idle upand more gain in TH to keep the tail from piro when pitch is applied,either way you or the gyro has to hold it. DOUG
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
ChristianM
Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

I use three flight mode with different head speeds and I do have to reduce the gain when I increase the head speed to avoid the tail wagging. On the throttle hold I drop the gain a bit to reduce the energy that the tail consumes. I do not agree TMoore that you can turn the gyro off and you won't be able to tell the difference. You may not notice much difference if you only auto into the wind with no tail input but if you do any pirouetting maneuvers then there most certainly will be a big difference. Having said that I agree that technique is the most important factor when performing autos.

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

The gyro is 100% efficent,it only applies enough input to keep the tail straight,if you do the input you have the possibility of useing too much input and causing drag on the main rotor.
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
montarok
Key Veteran
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Quote 
You can turn the gain off in an auto and you won't be able to tell the difference.


I don't think so. When I decided to setup my gyro in condition, I set the gain in all the conditions except the HOLD. I decided to end that first flight with an auto, the moment I flipped that switch, the tail started wagging seriously I had to bail out. I knew right away what the problem was. I landed, put the gain in and did my auto.

------------------------------------
www.carifuna.com
02-20-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rcheliflyer
Key Veteran
Location: calif., usa

I run the same gain in all modes when in HH.

Quote 
On the throttle hold I drop the gain a bit to reduce the energy that the tail consumes.


That's interesting, I never thought about that till reading this
thread.
I do run a higher gain in hold when in N mode which I usually
don't fly anyway due to the rt yaw on autos in that mode.
Something to play with a bit, maybe reduce the HH gain a little at a time and see.
I do know that a driven tail
will really drag down the head if too much rudder is used at the wrong time.
So some energy saved here is a good thing
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
ChristianM
Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

DOUGLAS

I am not sure what you mean by the Gyro is 100% efficient but the higher the gain is on the gyro the larger the commanded servo response will be to a given tail disturbance hence it will consume more energy from the main rotor.

Edit: That why when the gain is to high the tail starts to wag because it is over compensating.

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
ChristianM
Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

elerineye

If your tail started to wag then I would believe that the gain was set to a 100% or at least very high. If the gyro is turned off or is at 0% gain the the tail will just weather vane and not wag.

Christian

Burn fuel, be happy
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
zoom boy
Key Veteran
Location: N.E. Lincolnshire UK

Have to go against what some have said here.

If you have different RPMs in different flight modes then to get the best out of the heli in each mode you will need more or less gain depending on the mode.

If you increase the RPM then the tail RPM increases aswell, if that happens then you need to reduce the gain on the tail slightly as the tail is now capable of producing more yaw power at maximum throws, and at all points in between compared to the lower RPM.

This means that the tail is now more sensitive and that means that the gyro HH or otherwise will need to be set to a lower gain or it will start to wag.
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
pH7
Key Veteran
Location: Sterling Heights, MI - USA

Quote 
I am not sure what you mean by the Gyro is 100% efficient...
What he meant is that if the gyro is set up correctly it will only give tail rotor input if it is necessary to maintain the heading you have requested. It will not over compensate and then need to correct, like you might have to do yourself. The gyro will do the minimal amount of work (tail input) to keep the heading you want.
02-20-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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Main Discussion > Is different gyro gain needed for different flight modes?
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