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Autography FlightPower . Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models

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Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > ni-cd receiver pack size and which switch?
 
 
willard
Senior Heliman
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, USA

Im slowly getting together my tiger 50 as funds permit, with the ultimate goal of getting it flying by spring

Does anyone know what size receiver nicd will balance the heli with the standard length servo tray? saving weight isnt that improtant yet, Im a begginer just getting into forward flight.

I am thinking of getting the JR Extra 2400 mah nicd

Also, whats a good heavy duty switch to use that fits into the frame without modifications?

I was thinking of getting the JR gold plated heavy duty switch, as its reasonably priced. Will this work ok?

thanks

Will
02-13-2006 Over year old.
 
 
perfesser zero
Key Veteran
Location: Dublin, VA., USA

ni-cd receiver pack size and which switch?

The battery is OK if you are using standard analog servos. If you are going with digital servos I'd go with 3000mah sub C size or better batteries. I am using 3000mah batteries in a Hawk Sport and Raptor 30 and will at some point upgrade those. More mah is never a bad thing.

The gold plated switch is the minimum switch I use. There are others out there (MPI?) that are also good to use. You could also use the failsafe switch that MPI puts out (I think). I can't help you there as I've not looked into those. They are part of a failsafe system along with a regulator and battery system, I believe...if you're looking for something like that, you can look up MPI info.

Later...

Tiger 50 - OS 50SX-H
Hawk Sport - OS 37SZ-H
Raptor 30 - OS 37SZ-H
JR 10X/R950S
02-13-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
flybarless
Key Veteran
Location: Torrington, CT

My Tiger took an Expert 2700mah pack to balance and got 3 solid flights with analog servos. I currently either fly 3600 mah receiver packs or 6v regulated lipo packs.

Expert and Futuba both make a heavy duty swich. It's important to "Cycle" the switch about 50 times to seat the wipers, before placing the switch in service

Just remember -- if the world didn't suck, we would fall off.
02-13-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
perfesser zero
Key Veteran
Location: Dublin, VA., USA

Loaded...

You must be putting a hell of a load on those analog servos. Digitals will usually only get that many flights before showing a low voltage reading on that mah battery. I was using 2400mah batteries and only put as many as four flights on them. Afterwards I'd charge them again if I was going to fly anymore that day. Now that I've moved to digitals I'm going to watch what the 3000mah sub c batteries that I'm using now until I can get some idea as to how much I can fly until a charge is needed.

Later...

Tiger 50 - OS 50SX-H
Hawk Sport - OS 37SZ-H
Raptor 30 - OS 37SZ-H
JR 10X/R950S
02-13-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jvanscoyk
Veteran
Location: Tucson, AZ

I've been running the JR H/D Gold switch for the past year on my Tiger without any issues. In fact I run that switch on all my machines without any problems (knock-on-wood).
As for batteries get the biggest you can afford, the Tiger will need the nose weight anyway.

Jim

must go faster, must go faster.........
02-14-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jvanscoyk
Veteran
Location: Tucson, AZ

Hey Will,

What JR system are you using?

I have a 9303 in my Tiger and have setup the 8103 in CCPM if you should need any assistance.

Jim

must go faster, must go faster.........
02-14-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
willard
Senior Heliman
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, USA

Jim,

thanks for the offer of setup help but Im not running JR, just getting a JR nicd and switch as its what my LHS stocks.

I have an airtronics RD8000 transmitter

So far I have ammassed for my 'Budget Tiger':

1 X tiger ARF ($300)
4 X Hitec 6635 digital servo ($155 shipped from tower, already reduced then coupon etc etc
1 X airtronics 7ch mini fm recevier (will purchase y harness when I get a governor)($35 shipped used without crystal)
1 X Thundertiger 50 pro Heli engine ($90 shipped nib)
1 X Raptor v2 Thundertiger Muffler ($30 shipped nib)
1 X Thundertiger prop drive set ($10 shipped nib)


I need

401 & 9254 combo
Nicd
Switch
Glo plug
Fuel

The biggest hurdle remaining to me is the gyro and tail servo. Im all tapped out for $$$$ for the forseeable future

Im going to use my friends starter and glo igniter for a while
02-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
hootowl
Elite Veteran
Location: Garnet Valley, Pa.

I'm using a Duralite setup.

4000 mah Lithum ion.

The second battery in the pic runs my strobe lights.



Member Bog Troll Club #1
02-14-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jvanscoyk
Veteran
Location: Tucson, AZ

I just rebuilt a crashed EVO50 that I bought from someone and I sympathise with you. It never seems to end. You think that woohoo, I'm ready to go then go to the LHS to get some nick nacks like blade holder, remote glow plug adapter, fuel line, t-filter and other assorted stuff and walk out the door spending $85.

The helicopter is cheap part of the setup.

Jim

must go faster, must go faster.........
02-14-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
willard
Senior Heliman
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, USA

Jim,

thats exactly right!

I just have to close my mind to all those little associated expenses that soon add up.

One finanacial hurdle at a time
02-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
jbeech
rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

Darn, and people wonder why I work so hard to make the Tiger a competent little bird without the associated expense for the aluminum parts other helis seem to need in order to fly the way you want them to?

Anyway, battery-wise, I recommend a 2400mAH 4-cell sub-C Tiger pack which you can buy from Joan at TPE - Tel: 541-317-579 . . . and tell her I sent you! by the way, this same configuration is available to 3300mAH. In my opinion, 2400 is adequate for analog ervos and the 3300 is the heat for digitals. These are rapid charge/discharge cells so you can abuse them.

By the by, Joan has been a friend for many, many years and I buy my packs just like you do.


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
02-14-2006 Over year old.
 
 
tnorris
Senior Heliman
Location: Hico, Texas

I have personally had nothing but good luck with packs from batteriesamerica.com.. They have pretty much anything that you could possibly want.
02-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
willard
Senior Heliman
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, USA

Thanks John,

Is it really neccessary to use a pack larger than 2400 mah though, even WITH digital servos?

My friend uses a 2400 mah pack in his evo with 9252 digital servos and gets three to four flights before recharging.

I will get the larger pack if the consensus is that it is neccessary, but wouldnt it be better to have one less flight and save the weight?

thanks

Will
02-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
jvanscoyk
Veteran
Location: Tucson, AZ

I've run an 1800 sub-c pack up front and got 4 solid flights with non-digital servos without any problems. The only problem I ran into with that pack is that the Tiger comes out tail heavy even with the extended tray up front. That is why in this case I say that bigger is better.

The other thing you have to consider with the pack you buy is how you are going to charge it. I'm old school in regards to charging batteries and I only fast charge when I absolutely have to. The best charge rate for Ni-cads and Ni-Mh cells is 1/10C. That is 1/10 it's capacity. Which means charging overnight. Modern cells can handle higher charge rates much better but I still prefer to stick to that rule.

So if you go by that rule for a 2400mah 4 cell pack you would need something capable of charging at 240mah and a 3300mah pack you would need something capable of charging at 330mah. The stock charger that comes with JR heli radios only puts out 135mah. Not acceptable for the bigger packs. I've been in the hobby for a few years and have accumulated a couple chargers that work quite well but are unavailable anymore. In the days before Ace Hobbies was bought out by TT they had some really nice analog chargers that you could hook up to 2 packs of up to 8 cells and dial in the charge rate you wanted. Ace has newer digital chargers out there that do essentially the same thing though I have no experience with them.

So be sure to keep in mind how you are going to charge the battery you decide to go with.

Jim

must go faster, must go faster.........
02-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jbeech
rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

I find a 2400 mAH pack works for me but I monitor before EVERY flight. I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Van Scoyk because I have plenty of experience charging at 2C (30 minutes for a fully depleted battery pack) and SCR-type cells can be charged at 3C or even 4C also.

However, because I enjoy the fellowship with my friends nearly as much as, or even more than, I enjoy the flying itself I will charge at 2C in the knowledge the batteries can take up to 4C (a 15 minute charge from fully depleted). Also, because I can easily spend 15 minutes to an hour swapping lies with my friends, the 2C rate is a nice compromise (plus, they're not really fully depleted anyway).

Now against this I keep an eye on ambient temperatures. This is because if it's too hot/cold, NiCd batteries don't perform as well and voltage will drop off more quickly - this is a well recognized response. I.e. above 90°F or below 50°F ambient I adjust my charge habits and perhaps charge after three flights instead of four. Also, when it's hot outside, I wait longer for a battery to cool if it's warm to the touch, and then never exceed 2C charge rate since residual heat may be at its core. Though in truth, this really isn't much of an issue with flight packs as we don't deplete them that fast! Also, when it's colder (though this has become somewhat academic since my living in Florida has weakened my blood and my desire to stand around when it dips below 60°F), I may charge at 3C because a little core temperature boost is a good thing.

Speaking of balancing the Tiger. First, I don't fly with a horizontal fin and I also use a carbon vertical fin and thus, don't have an issue with balance when using the 2400 mAH pack. Furthermore, I mount the governor body on top of the forwardmost servo using a piece of Velcro® and plenty of foam for both battery and receiver on the radio platform. In addition to this, I rarely cut out the white plastic canopy material under the windshield area (the smoke plastic) anymore because it makes the unit stronger and affords greater protection to my equipment when the inevitable happens. I figure the 3/4 of an ounce helps my balance situation and the power-to-weight of the 50-class makes it something of a non-issue for me. That said, the 3300 mAH battery is probably overkill, but some guys don't have my regular monitoring habits and hence, my mention of it.

Meanwhile, sitting on my desk are two new 2400 mAH packs to replace two which have seen much use/abuse during the 2005 flying season. I also have a new pair of switches to replace those in the two helicopters in question. While I can cycle and get 85% and 88% respectively (of the original capacity) from when the packs were first installed, I won't risk a heli on them. Hence, I'll nip off what connectors look viable and toss and replace them both (it's part of the gearing up for the new flying season procedure). As I write this I'm looking at them both cycling here on my desk. I'll cycle them perhaps 5 more times between now and the weekend. I've fiddled with the switches also (usually whilst I'm on the phone) by turning them on/off many times). Finally, later this week, I'll write both the capacity and the date on the batteries with a Sharpie® pen, install both them and the switches, and be good to go for 2006!

My 2¢


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
02-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
jvanscoyk
Veteran
Location: Tucson, AZ

Habits are sometimes hard to break.
Starting in the hobby almost 30 years ago there was no such thing as fast charging a flight pack. The batteries are much better now than back then. I usually just put the battery on charge the night before and I'm ready to go the next day.

I would like to see the wiring and plug on a battery after hitting it with a 4C charge! That's almost 10amps through 24-26 guage wire.javascript:smilie(''
javascript:smilie(''
I've actually heard the rule of thumb for Ni-cads for max charge is 3C and for Ni-Mh cells is 1.5C.

I have no problem doing a fast charge at the field but that is not my primary charging method that I use.

If I made money from the b*llsh!t that get's discussed between flights at the field I would be a rich man. I agree with John that it is more of a social event for me than anything else when I go flying.

Whenever putting a new battery into service I put it on the Digipace and cycle it a few times to verify it's good. I also, like John, get out the Sharpie and put an in-service date on them.

Of my 5 helis I have 2 that are running on Li-Ion packs. To me that is the cat's meow. They are very low maintenance, take about an hour to charge and can go weeks without being charged.
Drawback is they are a little more money for the pack, you need a special charger for them and you need to run a regulator on the heli.
Very cool though.

Jim

must go faster, must go faster.........
02-15-2006 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jbeech
rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

I agree with Jim, because I forgot to mention I use HD wiring on batteries and switches. LiIo packs are more survivable than LiPo packs (in my opinion, not to start a war here), but the drawback is the regulator. That said, I'm sure these things will get better. Meanwhile, I've witnessed them (regulator) fail and the end result is a smoking hole in the ground because all radio activity ceases and control is lost. Sucks!


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
02-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
willard
Senior Heliman
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, USA

Ive been speaking to Dave at Radical RC who I have dealt with before and is very knowledgable reagrding batteries.

Im now thinking I may actually get a GP 3300 nimh sub c packs.

I have been warned against using nimh because with the lower quality cells (consumer grade) they can drop voltage a lot more under load.

However, apparently the GP nimh are extremely high discharge rated and have a lower internal resistance than the 4.2v 2400 mah sub c sanyo nicds which are the 'standard' where I fly for receiver packs.

Will
02-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
jbeech
rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

Your helicopter of course. Personally, I don't use NiMh anymore for my helis or large airplanes. Good luck and let us know how it works out (sometime next year) if you think about it.


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
02-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
willard
Senior Heliman
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana, USA

Quote 
Your helicopter of course. Personally, I don't use NiMh anymore for my helis or large airplanes. Good luck and let us know how it works out (sometime next year) if you think about it.


This is an interesting discussion and I havent decided absolutely either way yet......

Why dont you use nimh 'anymore' John
02-15-2006 Over year old.
 
 
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Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > ni-cd receiver pack size and which switch?
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