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Thunder Power RC . Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > 10 lb gasser heli!
 
 
JerBear
Senior Heliman
Location: Mesa, AZ

Has anybody else ever seen a 10lb gas heli?

Better yet, who of you out there would like to have one?


JerBear

"I'm smarter than the average bear."
09-27-2002 Over year old.
 
 
twguns
Senior Heliman
Location: Indianapolis, IN

I assume you are refering to the Fury Gasser due out early next year...

bigTim
09-27-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
squirrel
Veteran
Location: South Whitley, IN

Wow!!! ten pounds. I will take one right now.

squirrel
09-27-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

Not sure how. The lightest 60 size machines weigh in at 10lbs+. The gas motors are quite a bit heavier than the equivilent HP glow motor. Unless you are speaking of a small ci. glow to gas conversion, I don't see how you could get it down that far. Of course I could be wrong, I would love to see it though.

When you think about it, the average 2hp gas engine, a pair of 700mm blades, radio gear, batteries, you almost have 10lbs there. What is the heli made of?


Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
09-27-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Taipan
Key Veteran
Location: Sydney, Australia

Paper?

Sounds like hot gas to me.

I wonder if such engines can be shrunken a fair bit. This'll mean they'll be pretty weak.

30 size gas anyone?
09-27-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

It is difficult at best to remove the flywheel. An engine needs flywheel weight to idle. The larger the engine and the more compression the more flywheel you need. The electronic ignition still needs a battery to operate so you gain back the weight you save. What you would gain with the electronic ignition is the ability to advance the timing and produce more power and still have a retarded timing for idle.

The case can be lightened some in the flywheel housing area, but at the cost of possibly having a week crankcase that cracks every crash. By doing that on a production machine you add machining costs to the engine. You could, with some modification, use the crankcase as a structural member but where is the force of a crash going to go? The whole idea behind using a G23 is that it is a dirt cheap engine with easily availible and inexpensive parts.

The way I see it, you would be much better off trying to find more power with the G23 or similar engine, or finding a smaller engine that produces the same or better power.

If MA can get a gasser on 2hp+ around 10lbs at a reasonable engine cost, it should be a performer and a real seller, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It sounds an awful lot like rumor to me. I could see someone producing a helicopter that weighs 12lbs+ with a better power to weight ratio but I have a hard time believing that anyone could use the same engine, or even a modified version, and get a heli under 12lbs+. There just isn't anywhere to loose that much weight. 2lbs (17%) might just as well be a ton off a 12lb heli. Look over your heli and see if you can figure where you would be able to loose 1/6th of it (the equivilent of the tail section) without compromising strength or riggidity. I suspect you would have a tough time. The manufacturers hopfully have all ready done this for you, if not you may want to think about buying a different machine.

Just my thoughts,
Malorie

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
09-27-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

You are right. My point was that you sure won't save 2lbs by removing the flywheel. The flywheel on the G23 is not all that heavy (I've had mine off a few times), the coil has a bit of weight. You really dont save as much as you might think. I'll check it next time I get a chance. I just don't see the point in dropping the flywheel for the small amount of weight savings and the loss of simplicity and reliability. If I really worked at it and did all this stuff, I might be able to get my machine down to 11lbs dry. When you consider that my Intrepid performs GREAT on the stock G23 and would be a true monster on the Hanson modified, is all that hassle really worth it?

I just wanted to point out that the 2lbs is a ton of weight to loose and this sounds like rumor to me. I'll believe it when I see it.

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
09-27-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ScottG
Veteran
Location: Ft Wayne, Indiana

Is the cost of the Hanson motor the main reason why the "Gasser" heli is not real popular for extreme 3d stuff? I would love to do a gasser with a Hanson setup but would it be worth the extra money and overall weight gain to justify the savings in using gas rather than fuel? Whats your thoughts Mal?

Scott
09-27-2002 Over year old.
 
 
JerBear
Senior Heliman
Location: Mesa, AZ

Well..............I guess I will see if I still have the pictures. I designed it 3 years ago and flew it at the Phoenix Fun-fly. In fact, Kam Wyatt also flew it. It has a Bloise G23 with the standard ignition. It was not CCPM, but it did have an all metal head and it still had solid aluminum block spacers in the frame, (they weren't even machined out to be lighter). It is running a MA tuned exhaust with an HHI ergo 46 canopy on it. It runs a 95 tooth main with a 13 tooth pinion and swings 690 blades.

My intent with it now is to blow the dust off it and finish the R&D. I did manage to come across another engine that is a few ounces heavier but puts out close to 5hp at 8,000 rpm. The Bloise is closer to a little less than 3hp at 14,000 rpm.

Anyway, I wanted to see if it would generate enough interest for me to finish the design and maybe market it. The newer bigblock machines are sure nice, but suck up a lot of fuel and money.

My background is all helicopter. I am an Airframe Designer for the Apache. I also used to work on the floor, hands on, building the aircraft. Like I said, if there is enough interest, I will finish the work and look into marketting it. I have a friend with a machine shop so I know we can make the parts. Besides, there weren't that many parts to the helicopter!

So, again I ask...................Do you think there is enough interest?

JerBear
"I'm smarter than the average bear."
09-27-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ScottG
Veteran
Location: Ft Wayne, Indiana

I would at least like to see what you have in mind.

Scott
09-27-2002 Over year old.
 
 
wrlowry
Heliman
Location: Newark, DE

11 pound Quick Gasser

I Have installed a RC230 in a Quick 60 Pro (Carbon), it's weight comes in at 10 lbs. 14 oz. and its very hot machine.
09-27-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

The Hanson engine is not all that cost prohibative. I believe the big hang up with the gas machines is A) The false belief that they don't perform 3D, B) The smell of gas, C) The intimidation of that monster screaming at you (which is going away scince the 90 size machines have become popular) D) The intimidation of having to learn to run a 'Different' type of engine, and finally E) The thought of flying an 'expensive machine' (Which, all things considered, is not very expensive. The savings in fuel in one season will more than pay the difference.).

I really don't know why more people don't fly these great machines. I would have a Hanson engine if I hadn't bought my Intrepid Gasser used from one of my club members. Mine performs great on the stock G23 and I don't regret the investment one bit. In fact, scince I started flying helis, the gasser was my intention. The glow fuel mess and need for field support equipment has always been a pain to me. Now I've been spoiled and don't plan on going back. The engines will do nothing but improve from here. I have my eye on a new Bergen 25cc engine that we've been playing with. This motor has real snort. I've flown one heli with this motor and it performs better than most 90's. My only hang up at this point is that 720+ blades are not communly availible from the big boys (V Blades, MS, MAH), but the MS 710's would probably do. I would just like a bit better disc loading.

Sorry for babbling, I just love my Gasser,
Malorie

P.S. Come to the dark side...

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
09-28-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ScottG
Veteran
Location: Ft Wayne, Indiana

Ok Mal,

Is it considered normal to have a pull start on a gasser or can they be set up to use a starter like the others?
Also, from a conversation I had with Vic, He will be doing 720's here in the near future, so there is hope after all!

Scott
09-28-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

You could certainly remove the pull starter and save the weight. The Intrepid Gasser has a start cone just like the rest of the machines. You may need a good high tourque starter to turn it over, but it could be done. I use the pull starter to reduce the field support. It weighs about 6oz. I consider it very negligable.

I've heard the 720 blade thing from Vic now for well over a year. Maybe with all the 91's out there he'll get on it. I'll keep hoping (*SIGH*).

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
09-28-2002 Over year old.
 
 
JerBear
Senior Heliman
Location: Mesa, AZ

OK, I have found a picture. Since I have not paid Mark yet........anyone want to post the picture for me and I will Email it to them.


JerBear
"I'm smarter than the average bear."
09-28-2002 Over year old.
 
 
JoeS
Heliman
Location: USA

Been Flying it for 3 weeks

I have a gas Fury with new BME 2.4 mod motor. 9.12 in weight best thing ever. RUNS awesome and cheap sorry no pics CLASSIFIED Will have more in future. Just believe me it works great!
09-28-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

This sounds great but at this point, Jr member with no profile, why should we believe you? What kind of power? Not sure what you mean by BME 2.4 mod motor. 2.4 is 40cc engine. Would like to see specs. Is it a gas conversion? Tell us more without compromising your 'CLASSIFIED' status.

I defer to my ealier post, I'll beleive it when I see it. You know you could show some video of it in flight. Nobody could learn anything from that other than that it exists.


Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
09-28-2002 Over year old.
 
 
JoeS
Heliman
Location: USA

Error 2.4 suppose to be 2.7

2.4 is 39.33 not 40 cc another gallon trough it today
09-28-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

The RC230 is going to be upgraded to the25 cc head...Everthing that I've seen on the new generation engines is they are going to be A LOT easier to operate for everybody based on the RC230 22.5cc...
I tried to setup Terry Dukes new Benzin with the short boom, with the 725 blades...Mine you, those blades have a 70mm chord, and this machine was pulling 14 degs, and still could not keep the rpms down...
Maybe Zenoah will hurry up on the delivery of the new engine for you Bergen, Xcell pilots to enjoy ...


Jerbear.....I would bring your new machine out, and see what happens flying it at flyin's....I know a fellow in NY thats doing the samething...
You never know

As for as Vario pilots running the RC230...To date, no one has complained about the engine.. Some of the scale guys are running the camper fuel, with various amounts of oil, with no problems ... There is just no comparing this engine with the old G2D or the PUH for that matter...BTW, I have a friend that tried the WT 603 on the old PUH, and it help with a lot of the problems with that engine...
Regards,
Bill.
09-29-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

HA HA HA HA,
Scince when does a 39.33cc gas engine weigh 1lb less than a 91 glow engine (mind you that OS claims the 91 to weigh in at just over a pound). Oh BTW, BME makes the heaviest gas engines on the market. The Fury with a 91 weighs 10 lbs+. MA did all it could to get the weight down on the Fury. Now your claming that you have a 39.33cc gas engine that makes the Fury 1lb lighter, the motor must be lighter than air.

How do you keep it from tearing up the drive train. I happen to know for a fact that a 40cc gas engine will eat the teeth of a standard maingear for breakfast. I'm actually suprised that the maingears are holding up to the 80/91's.

HA HA HA HA HA,

Again, I'll believe it when I see it.

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
09-29-2002 Over year old.
 
 
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > 10 lb gasser heli!
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