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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > AAAAWWWW What the HELL>>>>>>>

corey11
Elite Veteran
Location: Bay Area, California

Why doesnt the little allen screws stay in the starting shaft???????!!!!!!i go to start my heli(hawk sport) and every time i get a couple pops of the engine, then i try again and the little screws get loose and come out!! not totally out, but just out of the little divet in the starting shaft. its makeing me mad!!!!!!!! so ive got a brand new heli just waiting to fly, but i cant!!!! i HATE the hawk starting system!!!!!PLEASE HELP ME

Thanks
Corey

09-27-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

cquinby
Senior Heliman
Location: Tenino, WA

Cone or Hex?

If you have the hex start adaper try grinding two flat spots on the starter shaft for the set crew to sit in. Also use red locktite and it sure cure your problem. I had the same problem but as soon as I did that it cured the problem.

Chris

Chris

09-27-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Mopzilla
Veteran
Location: Cupertino, CA USA

if you are sick of starting it that way, you can always sell your current OS 32 sx-h and get an OS 32SX-HX, which is a pullstart engine. From my experience of pullstarts, they are a pain in the butt if your engine is in the last 30% of its life - you need a fast starter to help with the lower compression! The engine would cost you 160ish.

-----------------
Ever stop to think, and forget to start again?

09-27-2002 Over year old.

Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

Topflyer,
That has to be one of the sillyest reasons of selling a heli I can think of. Why didn't you get creative and consider doing what Cquinby did?

The Hawk Sport JUST came out. I bet you didn't have a gallon of fuel on it before you gave up. That's ENTIRELY to soon to quit on a heli.

Are you sure you want to fly helis? You know, these things take time and a willingness to work on them!

Corey and All,
The Century start system is AWESOME. If you haven't had a Raptor, Venture, Fury, etc then you won't be able to appreciate it. The start system is one of the strong points. Because it is not involved with engine alignment you get a VERY easy system for setting up. I can tell you from experience that disengaging start system is the way to go!

Just get that Dremel tool or file out and create some flats on the shaft. I don't know about Red Loctite but definetly use at least Blue. For what it's worth those adapters come loose on Ventures and Raptors too.

09-27-2002 Over year old.

corey11
Elite Veteran
Location: Bay Area, California

I was actually thinking about getting the pull start os 32. i will try sanding it down.

09-27-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Cassini
Senior Heliman
Location: Enterprise, AL

You would be there a long time with sand paper. Use a dremel tool to grind the flat spots that you need.

09-27-2002 Over year old.

Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

Topflyer,
Please provide some specifics. That's how Century, Century product owners, and future owners all benefit from these message boards.

What manuevers were you putting the machine thru?

Where did you notice slop?

How much fuel did you run thru your Hawk Sport?

09-27-2002 Over year old.

gwallace1
Veteran
Location: Susanville, CA

Same problem

Had the same / similar prob on my Hawk IV. Before I got wrapped around an axle & sold it I read a couple of posts here. Simple fix .....red loctite, not blue and worst case scenario (which I did not have to resort to) the grinding of a flat spot. I love my Hawk. I'm still new, but it has been great so far and from what most here say it will be great for quite some time. I have yet to read a post on a single PERFECT helo anywhere. All will have their own problems, quirks, etc, most of which on the Hawks are fixed without having to purchase costly upgrades. Just my two cents, not trying to start a war.

09-27-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

KIRK3D
Heliman
Location: Florida

The Century start system is the best design I've seen on a helicopter, you cant beat It. No clutch alignment and start shaft not continually turning, are great features. Just grind an extra flat and make sure you use a good quality allen driver to tighten.

09-27-2002 Over year old.

oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

threadlock & flooding

Corey

The detailed instruction manual (page 8, step 8) clearly states that the use of a threadlock is required here. (I always use red locktite here)

The start systems on all helicopters are designed to work as inteded on engines that are set properly. so be sure yours is. These hex couplers on all start shafts will work loose if they are constantlyteying to start flooded engines or engines that are difficult to start because of other reasons (dry or bad plugs). But flooding is by far the biggest culprit. Specially prevalent on muffler pressure plumbed systems.

Most beginners do not remove the pressure line to the muffler when refueling. So raw fuel will get into the muffler while refueling. (Also, if the heli is not held in the proper attitude when transporting it, raw fuel can leak through this line from the tank into the muffler.) It is also a good idea to pinch off the carb line while refueling if you are doing so through a third line.

Then every time the exhaust port opens as one turns the engine over, raw fuel will scavenge INTO the cylinder and flood it. (A flooded engine is one that has too many fuel molecules in the cyclinder in relation to air molecules - excessively rich), This can increase the compression ratio to the point that it can and will require more force to turn over the engine then the engines conrod is designed to take. If the hex coupler did not break loose, you would damage your engine's connecting rod!!!

So if you are having these problems the heli may well be "talking to you". It may be telling you that you are trying to start an engine that is not set properly or is getting fuel from the muffler.

With red locktite and unflooded engines, one will not have to file or dremel (not sand) a larger flat on the start shaft.

09-27-2002 Over year old.

deckerv
Veteran
Location: Wellsville, NY

I had that prob on my Airwolf 30... lol.. I thought the prop shaft nut came loose, so I took ALL the mechs out of the body (which is a royal pain in a bell 222) and disassembled the clutch assembly and re-built it again... got it together, and had the same prob... In the body, I just couldn't see that the hex adapter was spinning on the shaft... GRRRRR!!!! WOW.... 3+ hours of work to fix a 1 minute problem

.... hence the reason I still consider myself a newbie

.... The flat sports will fix that issue though.. don't know why I didn't think of it earlier.

deck

09-27-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

use the search button.

For hex adaptors/adapters that always come loose after hammering it with the starter.

This has been discussed before!

The solutions that work in order of preference have been:

a) red loctite
b) CA the hex adaptor on & the set screw onto the start shaft.
c) filing a flat instead of using the dimple
d) tack weld the hex adaptor onto the start shaft.

Anyways, I listed the order in which you should try. As you go down the list, the solution gets more and more extreme

.

Jimmy

That was one of the main resons I got red of mine.

What's that? you got red locktite on yours? good for you

09-27-2002 Over year old.

corey11
Elite Veteran
Location: Bay Area, California

im just going to put a whole through the whole starting shaft and the hex adapter and put a bolt in it. i know it wont slip now.The starting ststem is good, i just HATE the little set screw part. its a royal pain in the a$$

09-27-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

edg
Senior Heliman
Location: San Francisco, CA

Corey:

Doh! You ever try drilling a hole into a steel shaft. If you don't have more than a hand drill good luck!

Your best bet is grinding the flats on the shaft better -- I can't remember if the Hawk hex adapter has 2 set screws: if so, a flat on the other side will help hold better, if not you could drill thru the existing setscrew hole out the other side to create a 2nd set screw hole (easier than drilling the shaft). Then use a tap to thread it.

Another thing is are you sure you haven't stripped out the threads in the set screw hole? You should be able to tighten that screw real tight to hold it. You can always tap out a larger set screw hole -- sometimes a 3mm screw is a bit weak.

In any case, with really not much work and locktite there's no reason the basic design shouldn't completely hold it on w/o slippage. Mostly I think it would just be a matter of grinding a better flat spot...

-edg-

09-27-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Twobeers
Key Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

The trick is.................make a small flat on the shaft. Clean all the parts really really well. Put a small amount of blue locktite in the allen screw hole (toothpick) put a small amount on the screw, put a little bit on the shaft and coupler. Assemble. Tighten. Put it on the shelf and leave it alone, don't touch it, don't breath on it, don't even look at it for at least 24hrs. Of course you can put red on it if you like, but don't cry to me if you can't get it apart at a later date.
The trick to the locktite is that you have to let it set and dry. If you should take a tool to it later on to check the tightness the only thing you accomplish is to break the locktite bond. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Of course do your preflight carefully, look, touchy, touchy and all that. If something is loose you don't need a wrench to tell you that.

I lost my infamous tag line.

09-27-2002 Over year old.

Ray Fernandez
Elite Veteran
Location: Guam (U.S.A.)

Sometime back.......way back...... I had a similar problem with one of my Hawks. It almost got me to throw in the towel and get another kind of heli. But, fortunately, I decided to weather this problem out.

I tried the "filing a flat on the shaft", IUse Red Locktite" and so on and so on......My remedy was to change over to the cone start and that was the end of that. Heli started up fine all the time and I didn't have to mess with that little set screw.

Ray Fernandez - GUAM

09-27-2002 Over year old.

corey11
Elite Veteran
Location: Bay Area, California

Ya im putting a little nic in it like Ray said. im letting the locktite dry right now. hope fully it works

09-28-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

I tried the "filing a flat on the shaft", IUse Red Locktite" and so on and so on......My remedy was to change over to the cone start and that was the end of that. Heli started up fine all the time and I didn't have to mess with that little set screw.

Hey Ray, I have that heli of yours

.

Guess what? if you take the set screw off the cone start system. The cone start adaptor won't come off. It is stuck on so tight, that without the set-screw, it will start right up just fine.

. Guess how I know?

I looked at what you did. And basically, it looks like that cone start adaptor is crazy glued onto the start shaft. It won't come off, unless you use a wedge and a sledge hammer.

I found out you can basically do the same thing with the hex adaptor too.

Here's the detailed procedure:
a) put hex adaptor on.
b) line up with dimple on start shaft. tighten set screw.
c) place 8 drops of medium CA on the TOP of hex adaptor. (There's a hole at the top of the hex adaptor, so you'll be gluing the hex adaptor to the shaft).
d) wait till dry (1 hour). wipe up excess CA that may be flowing down start shaft..
e) remove set screw.
f) place 3 drops of CA in set screw hole. replace set screw.
g) place 1-3 drops of CA in the other set screw hole.

That's it. CA expands when heated (and will burn before it softens up), so this thing never loosens up unless you send a sledge hammer its way.

The caveat is that CA doesn't work too well on oil soaked parts. Make sure you do this after you've cleaned the parts up good.

If you can't clean the oil up real good on the shaft, you can try using locktite instead of CA. The difference is you'll have to wait 24 hours for it to dry.

Hey Corey, I do believe that a bolt through both the hex adaptor and start shaft would be the ultimate solution. However, as others have posted, you may have some difficulty drilling that hole. If you manage it though, send us some picts!

Jimmy

09-28-2002 Over year old.

Ray Fernandez
Elite Veteran
Location: Guam (U.S.A.)

Hey Jimmy,

On the Hawk SE, I didn't do anything to the starter cone. I received that particular heli that way.

I know the Falcon that Frank has was the one I made the change on.

Ray Fernandez - GUAM

09-28-2002 Over year old.

ncostes
Veteran
Location: US

Red loctite

All I did was put red loctite on the 1 set screw and it works fine. hasn't come off since.

used to come off all the time with just blue - because of the heat.

Didn't grind/drill/sand or replace

Just put the adapter so the whole goes to the dimple in the shaft, clean and dry the screw, and apply red loctite.

Then let it set for a while before using of course.

09-29-2002 Over year old.

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