RunRyder - Brushless motor and stock 4in1 works!

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e-E-Flite Blade CP CX 400-3D > Brushless motor and stock 4in1 works!

chopperman1
Key Veteran
Location: Carle Place, New York

do you think it is worth it going brushless

11-27-2005 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Dave763
Heliman
Location: Fairport, NY

The stock motor works just fine. The only reason I messed around with it is I had the motors and esc sitting around collecting dust.

11-27-2005 Over year old.

stealth916
Veteran
Location: Rocklin, CA

It only takes one time to see heli parts fly off and nearly hit somone to earn the respect you need for these - I have a feeling we may hear about more parts flying if a more sane approach to headspeed management isn't taken.

I wouldn't exceed 2400 RPM with the stock head parts - that should be fine for 3D. Myself, I'd like to stay around 1800-2000 RPM. The hardcore 3D HornetX micro flyers usually go 2400-2600 RPM (2600 for really, really good pilots) - but they have stronger parts.

The only reason I want to do this mod is to stop buying brushed motors. I have spent $70 in brushed motors. I fly in front of my house, so I don't have to go anywhere to fly - this means I fly a whole f'ing lot - I have plenty of lipos and the only time I stop is when I'm bored or it gets dark.

I am also sick of the brushed motors losing power in the middle of the runs due to heat buildup. The heat susbstantially affects the magnetic field, and reduces power. So honestly you can't even fly out a whole pack and enjoy it.

So there my reasons for brushless: consistent (and maybe a little more) power, longer duration, and no more buying motors. I will stay away from insane head speeds - and I wont try the mod until I have found a motor/pinion to give a sane headspeed.

I'd also like to put my Jet ranger fuse back on - the brushless would no doubt help carry the extra weight. But again, for scale flight - headspeed is not what you want.

11-27-2005 Over year old.

Cameron
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville, Florida

LOL

stealth916:

Quote
I'd also like to put my Jet ranger fuse back on - the brushless would no doubt help carry the extra weight. But again, for scale flight - headspeed is not what you want.

That would be pretty funny and sweet to see a jet ranger doing 3D stuff and flying around doing crazy stuff. I agree on the headspeed it could be quite dangerous with those kind of rpms but then again if you know what you are doing then all the power to ya. I think im gonna stick with the stock setup and wait around until some1 gets the brushless stuff dialed in and lower head speed.

CLASS OF '08!!!

11-27-2005 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

stealth916
Veteran
Location: Rocklin, CA

I am trying to find out what the unloaded Kv of a stock BCP motor is.

Check this out: http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_U.../0.0039/0.0019/(CCW+)

You need SHOCKWAVE to use it - but it is a cool performance sim - where you can crank up the RK-370SD motor temp and battery voltage and see how it affects power.

Also, here are specs for a 370 Mabuchi motor - with some interesting timing refrences:
http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/cgi-...CAT_ID=rk_370sd

Note that this motor isn't exactly like ours. We use an RK-370SD-4045.

the first two numbers in the 4045 represent the size of wire used for the windings, in 1/100th of mm. In this case, we use .40mm wire, or 26 guage.

Next up is the number of turns - in our case we have 45.

All I really am trying to figure out is the unloaded kV (RPM/Volt) of a stock BLADE CP motor - without rigging my own test disc. This would help establish the gearing and kV of brushless motor we need for a good replacement to stock.

lastly - here is a cool run down from the horses mouth, on the basics of motor performance, factors affecting motor noise, and all kinds of good science: http://www.mabuchi-motor.co.jp/en_U...nic/t_0200.html

11-27-2005 Over year old.

Cameron
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville, Florida

Nice Post

I like the post man. I like the thing where you can change the voltages and stuff. Thats sweet. Major props for the post one of the best i think i have seen. I didnt know they stuff like that for the motors. Great post

CLASS OF '08!!!

11-27-2005 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

stealth916
Veteran
Location: Rocklin, CA

Yeah - makes me want a super-cooler for my motor - the watts really go up when you go sub-zero

11-27-2005 Over year old.

stealth916
Veteran
Location: Rocklin, CA

I compared a TREX pinion to an Esky main gear - the pitch is exactly the same. I then layed the esky gear over the Trex gear and confirmed the pitch of the teeth and all other important dimensions are the same to the best of my ability to eyeball it.

So this gives us some options for different shaft sizes & teeth counts.

11-28-2005 Over year old.

skypup
Senior Heliman
Location: San Antonio, Texas

brushless mod

I have a brushless chili pepper 36 kv and castle creations controller. I just got my Blade CP today. Flew NiMh first and then switched motors(brushed), added cooling fins and flew lipos. I really like this heli. I am still trying to make sense out of connecting to the 4-1 on channel 3. Are you taking the 4-1 apart and soldering on a board or simply plugging into the 4-1 and making your connections from that point? Thanks in advance.

SKYPUP

11-30-2005 Over year old.

stealth916
Veteran
Location: Rocklin, CA

According to his post on the first page:

"The wiring is very simple. A brushless ESC normaly gets plugged into channel 3 on a reciever. In this reciever ch. 3 and 4 have the pins sticking out the other side so it can plug into the mixer/gyro. You need to hook the brushless ESC to channel 3, so you have to either solder the ESC to the reciever board at ch. 3 or solder a female servo plug to the reciver board at ch.3 and plug the brushless ESC into that.
Power from the battery has to go to the power input leads on the brushless ESC as wll as the power input leads on the 4in1."

Also see this old thread for more pics of the inside of the 4-in-1 and everything he said should make sense:

This: http://runryder.com/helicopter/t198115p1/

11-30-2005 Over year old.

stealth916
Veteran
Location: Rocklin, CA

Here is the general idea for the connections. You only use the outside pins of the Ch-3 connector (Signal and -Ground). Forgive my poor spelling - quicky job

You would also need a Y cable for the battery connector - connecting each ESC battery input to your battery.

11-30-2005 Over year old.

c mark smith
Senior Heliman
Location: Mt Vernon, Indiana

Well, there goes your warranty !!!

11-30-2005 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

skypup
Senior Heliman
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Stealth 916

Thanks for the reply. You show one connection point at the board. I have not had my 4-1 apart yet. I am assuming their is a similar connection point on the other side at the board? I am fairly good at soldering battery packs etc. but am a little leery of soldering the board. I am afraid of unsoldering something else.

SKYPUP

11-30-2005 Over year old.

saahbs
Senior Heliman
Location: Aurora, IL.

skypup,

As long as you use a 5W iron with a light tip, you'll be fine. Doesn't guarantee that you won't unsolder anything else, but it will be much easier.

--
I fly airplanes, sailplanes, helis; nitro and electric.

11-30-2005 Over year old.

stealth916
Veteran
Location: Rocklin, CA

Mark C is right - so be careful.

If you use a Y cable - you do not have to solder. In that case - you are in good company with the MANY other folks using their JR radios.

In fact - I probably WILL use a Y cable, and seperate my Rx from the Gyro/Mixer/Brushed ESC/Brushless ESC to cut down on EMF problems.

Plenty of people have cracked this open and tapped into it with a cable for using an alternate Rx with Jr radios.

After 6212 views and over 100 posts on this topic , something tells me more than a few people have ventured past "covered by warranty" status.

A new 3-in-1 from BALSAPR is only $49 if you are totally AMISH and can't bring yourself to go against the man - buy that and sleep better at night

11-30-2005 Over year old.

stealth916
Veteran
Location: Rocklin, CA

Skypup - I am really only pointing to the general area where you'll be soldering - not individual solder points. Please don't take my info as the neophyte's guide

You should know how to solder or make a good Y-Cable, you should know what S-+ means, and you need to be comfortable with exactly what is going on here in concept with this mod.

I just wanted to show folks what to expect when they got inside.

Maybe later - after I have done this myself, I will make a more comprehensive guide.

11-30-2005 Over year old.

skypup
Senior Heliman
Location: San Antonio, Texas

I can solder and have made several Y cables over the years. I do understand polarities and signal. I thought the Y cable was used for battery and esc connection after soldering, pigtailing from channel 3. Why don't you need to solder with a Y harness?

SKYPUP

11-30-2005 Over year old.

stealth916
Veteran
Location: Rocklin, CA

Skypup - I am not knocking you - these posts will be read 3 months from now, long after we're flying brushless

So I want to be clear for those who have yet to stumble in here.

OK - so if you had a Y harness with the appropriate plugs/spades on each end (hence the need for good soldering skills still) - it would be 'plug and play' to the boards - you would never put your iron on the boards - and you could go back to normal 4-in-1 if required and no one would be the bud-wiser.

In my pic above - I have basically depicted the 2-lead Y-Cable in Red/Yellow :-) Imagine it with the proper connectors on each end - and you see it is plug and play.

You would also need a straight 3-wire cable to re-connect Ch4 back to the gyro board in the case that you do go with y-cables.

like I said - the nice thing about it - you can put your Rx anywhere - as in well away from all the other noise makers

I would wrap the gyro board in one set of heat shrink, and the Rx in another - and keep it all seperate - if I was worried about warranty and/or noise and not worried about weight.

For weight savings - a direct solder tap to the Rx board is best.

11-30-2005 Over year old.

skypup
Senior Heliman
Location: San Antonio, Texas

brushless success!

Following everyones' help and advise in this thread I got my chili pepper 36kv motor working on the bench. I soldered to channel three at the board with a pigtail servo connector. Instead of a Y harness I soldered the controller and battery plug together at the battery plug. I reprogrammed the controller from governor to normal mode and I'm ready to go

I hovered into my front yard wind indicator and broke my flat blades this morning. Oh well, I sure will be happy to try it out when the new blades get here.

SKYPUP

12-01-2005 Over year old.

stealth916
Veteran
Location: Rocklin, CA

sweet! let us know how she does with that motor - and which pinion you end up liking.

12-01-2005 Over year old.

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e-E-Flite Blade CP CX 400-3D > Brushless motor and stock 4in1 works!

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