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Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC . Mikado Modellhubschrauber

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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > Play in flybar assembly
 
 
LongbowAV8R
Senior Heliman
Location: Aberdeen, MD

Ladies and Gents,

Could some of you Raven/Falcon owners please check and see if there is any play in your flybar assemblies where the flybar runs through the ball bearings in the offset plate... (basically where the aluminum part of th flybar control arm rests against the bearing in the offset plate.)

I am narrowing down my interference issues and I do believe it is due to receiver problems (not sure if filters are damaged or if the coil needs tuning...) anyway, one of the things that I started to notice was a very little amount of play in the rotation plane right where the flybar runs through the bearings in the offset plate. I believe that what I am seeing is normal and I just paid no attention to it before, but I would like someone to second that for me... give me a "warm fuzzy" about it...

Thanks all,
Cory

Never Leave Your Wingman!!!
The models will (and normally do) follow me everywhere....
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

me to this I have

My Falcon has only 2 gallons of fuel run threw it and I noticed this last week, so I replaced the bearings and it did not help !! I thought I used high quality bearings, maybe not...


Jim
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
KIRK3D
Heliman
Location: Florida

I'am flying a Raven and also have end-play in the flybar, I noticed it after about the first 2 gallons, I e-mailed Century about it and they said "disassemble it to find the problem there should be no play". I took the flybar control arms apart and could not find anything physically causing it and there wasn't any way to tighten up the play, maybe shortning the control arm stand-off by sanding slightly would take up the play, or adding a thin spacer between the bearing and locking collar would take care of it. So far it has not caused a problem and there is no vibration so I'am keeping an eye on it. Hope this helps.
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
svanwhy
Heliman
Location: Tague, Korea

Interference issues? Like radio "hits"? No freeplay here but one time I was taking hits and I found out that the two lower screws that hold the servo tray to the frame had come loose enough for the servo tray to move and rub against the screws and that caused some problems, you might want to check it.
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

I no free play here either. Just looked at it again today, couldn't find any free play on the flybar. But, only have about 1.5 gallons through my Falcon.

Jimmy
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
concept1
Key Veteran
Location: Youngstown, OH

I also have no free play in mine, very tight. But I have only about a dozen flights on it now.

Jon
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

flybar play

Corey et al,

Like on the X-Cell and Fury rotor head you, may find the fit between the bearing cups (HI3167F) and the tie bar on the seesaw has loosed. To keep it all tight, I use some epoxy or thick cyanoacrylate to glue the cups to the plate. (make sure the bearings aren't in the cups at the time to insure you do not get any glue into the bearing.

Phil
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
KIRK3D
Heliman
Location: Florida

Phil(oldfart)

Yes, I did use cyno on the bearing cups per the instructions on intial assembly, and everthing was tight, I think I'll try the epoxy maybe this will hold up better. Good info thanks I'll try this on my Raven.
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

more

I forgot to mention that you should also check that the two M3 x 15 Button head socket screws that secure the seesaw assembly to the mian rotor hub have not loosened off.

Phil
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

loose bolts


I forgot to mention that you should also check that the two M3 x 15 Button head socket screws that secure the seesaw assembly to the mian rotor hub have not loosened off.


Yeah, there were some loose bolts in the head on mine. Right after the first day of flying.

Same thing happened on the 2nd and 3rd day too.

Put some blue locktite on, and after 2 more days of flying it loosened up again.

Weird stuff. It's tight now, again Haven't had a chance to fly much after that. I think I'm good now, that bearing is finally fully seated into the plastic. Before, I would tighten that screw down, and note that the bearing wasn't moving freely, and loosen it back up till it did . This final time, I tightened it down, and noted that the bearing was still indeed moving freely!

Jimmy
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

bolts

Try red locktite - 262
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gray
Senior Heliman
Location: Lowell , mass

I have [lay at the seesaw bottob arms that connect to the swashplate(long balls ).Just ordered new arms for seesaw .ok now
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
LongbowAV8R
Senior Heliman
Location: Aberdeen, MD

here is a follow-up....

Gentlemen (and ladies as well)...

I have taken my flybar assembly and control arms off to inspect the bearings and the rest of the system and I can't see any issues from a mechanical standpoint........

This said, I want to know the prudence of using s bit of blue loctite where the flybar actually runs through the bearingsto mate the flybar to the inner race.... curious if this might help this issue at all....

The play I am getting is minute, but it is deffinitely only in the plane of rotation and can be targeted at where the flybar itself runs through the bearings in the offset plates.

I have no issues with my bearing holders coming loose and I have no issues with the control arms being loose against the bearings... I can place the entire system together minus the flybar and it will still hold itself together... I just can't figure why the flybar would have play against the offset plate bearings... tis strange....

Please advise on the loctite use (be aware that I am in full considerations of the warnings associated with the use of loctite near any bearing... the way I personally feel about it is if you don't need to loctite a bearing inner race to a shaft, I prefer not to... just more of a headache when scheduled maintenance comes down.)

I am a fan of using it as a corrective measure though... any of you with any advice on this please respond.

Thx.

Cory

Never Leave Your Wingman!!!
The models will (and normally do) follow me everywhere....
09-19-2002 Over year old.
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

could this cause pitching ?? maybe !!

Phil ??

I was just woundering if this play in the fly bar could cause pitching up problems ?!!


Phil ??


Where are you Phil ??



Jim
09-19-2002 Over year old.
 
 
oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

pitching

Jim,

Yes, in severe cases this may be so. I do not think the flybar play we are talking of here would contribute much to pitching.....but pitching can contribute a lot to increased flybar play.

"Pitching" is usually caused by the use of dynamically unstable blades. The better the head design, the better it can control such blades. The more dynamically unstable the blades, the more work a rotor head's flybar system has to do to control this instability. The more work anything has to do, the faster it will wear. Needless to say, if the flybar stabilzation system is working its butt off to stabilize, that would also means that the complete control system is also working its' butt off to feed control inputs to the system.

In summary, the more dynamically stable the rotor blade used, the more flights one can have before any consequential play would develop in the rotor system and the less would be any consequences of that slop.

But we all know that rotor blades are usually chosen by the consumer for other reasons then their dynamic stability. Usually they are chosen because:
1 - of their low price (to lessen the trauma on the plastic after a mishap)
2 - of their cool looks and high price (may give one more "poser" factor with flying buddies)
3 - recommended by someone on the net who may use them for one of the two reasons above and who is not aware of the consequences of blades with dynamic instability.
4 - of their general popularity developed by high profile flyers using them (because they get them free or at greatly reduced prices). Many off these may be great flyers but do not understand the dynamics of a rotor head well enough to even know that some of their "wear" problems are really associated directly to the blades they are using. But that is no big deal because they get free parts when they crash or when they replace these worn items.
09-19-2002 Over year old.
 
 
LongbowAV8R
Senior Heliman
Location: Aberdeen, MD

why I started this topic...

Folks,

It wasn't my initial intent to start this thread to cause a lot of worry and anxiety about our flybars... I am glad that this experience actually brought forth some very interesting and important points that most hobbiests do not necessarily take into consideration.

I, being a technician by nature,follow tollerances for everything... I mean any question about play that I don't feel is right or that I haven't felt before will warrant me calling the crew chief or maintenance officer before I would even think of crawling into the cockpit and leaving mother earth... I love to be in the air up there but some things are just too important to life and limb. I guess I may have been overly cautious about this initially.

I will say that I have dissassembled the flybar assembly and gave the control arms, tie-bars, and the offset plates and associated bearings the once over and concluded that I don't have any mechanical problems... once I reassembled the components, the play went away... so it's hard to say. I'll keep an eye on it and my feeling is that there is a little movement internal to the bearings that is just a manufacturing issue... not necessarily bad.

Well, all... I am going to keep my eyes on the posts because it is amazing what one issue will dig up sometimes... and there is no better way to solve a problem than combining thoughts... this forum is honestly a great place.

Thanks for all the help.

Cory

Never Leave Your Wingman!!!
The models will (and normally do) follow me everywhere....
09-19-2002 Over year old.
 
 
the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

Flybar and bearings fit

Well, I can see that the play in my Flybar IS coming from the fit between the Flybar and the bearing,,, when I move the Flybar the bearings do NOT move,,, and as I said I have all ready replaced the bearing once,,, I wonder if the Flybar wire size just happened to be made under size by a couple thousands, that would do it, I am going to go to the LHS and check out the RC car bearings, and see if they fit tighter, if they do I will buy two and do it up (fix it),,,

Thanks Phil !!!!!!

Jim
09-19-2002 Over year old.
 
 
KIRK3D
Heliman
Location: Florida

Flybar play

I found a simple way of removing this play, simply loosen both set screws on the seesaw flybar and pinch both seesaw halves together, while holding tighten the set screws, be mindfull of the paddle alignment. This took care of my loose flybar, this will probly have to be done every so often to take in account for wear hard landing's and so on.
09-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
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GrandRC . CanoMod . Futaba-RC

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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > Play in flybar assembly
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