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Century Helicopter . MTA Hobbies . Model Rectifier Corp

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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > What servos for Hawk Sport?
 
 
viper
Heliman
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia

What servos are good for the Hawk Sport, for a beginner?
09-16-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
toyman241
Senior Heliman
Location: Valparaiso , IN

I would say JR 537's ,a JR 4735 on the tail, and hitec 525 on throttle.This is just my opinion and it's also what mine has.Six crashes, 2 years flying, still a solid performer.I just love my Hawk, it keeps going and going.


Just my 2 cents.

Joe...toyman241
09-16-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Any kind of standard BB servos should do for hovering around.

I started off with Futaba S148's all around.

I would recommend the Hitec 425's, best bang for the buck. I still use these for my 30-sized heli. (Well, actually I got a Futaba 9450 on the tail, and a Hitec 605BB for the collective).

Jimmy
09-16-2002 Over year old.
 
 
oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

servos

As most beginners are more concerned with acceptable performance at "budget" pricing then on top performance at higher prices I only would like to say that a servos requirements in order of importance are:

1- In all helicopter installations from beginer to expert the most important spec, and one that is not given by any manufacturer is the "reliability" factor. This means the ratio of servo failure to hours of servo use. This is of prime importance because a sloppy servo will only increase ones "workload" to fly precisely. But a servo that fails will cause the inevitable sphincter tightening that leads to the inevitable wallet loosening.

So for a beginner who is not so concerned with the other aspects and is using an easy to control heli like the Hawk I have found the Futaba S-148's to be one of the most reliable servos in the "budget" class. And will work acceptably well in this application on every control.

NOTE: one will have more fun FLYING his heli with reliable inexpensive units then he will have LOOKING at his heli on the workbench will waiting for more money to purchase higher priced equipment

2 - Durability factor- for all flyers, this is the next important and is the ratio of the amount of slop that will develop over a specific time in use. This is why properly molded gears and DUAL bearing support becomes important. What? Dual bearing supports? Many budget servos advertise "ball bearing servo". They may only have one bearing supporting the servo output shaft so that they can advertise this questionable "benefit". Actually it can be a disadvantage in terms of durability. As the bearing will inevitably be inserted at the top of the shaft, what is supporting the bottom of the shaft? Here you may find anything from the plastic case molding to a harder nylon bushing to a better oilite bushing. In all cases, by putting only one bearing on top, more of the forces will be transfered to the bushings which may well be a plastic or nylon one. In this case, wear will develop a lot faster then in a servo with two harder oilite bushings. So unless the servo has two bearings, its durability factor may not be as good as another servo without bearings. Not to mention that servo "A" with the two oilite bushings may have more accurately molded nylon gears which will remain slop free and drag free for a lot longer then one with poorly molded pastic units.

3 - precision - this area also concerns gear molding accuracy but also motors and electronics. A coreless servo CAN (but is not always neccessarily so) be designed to be more precise then a 5-pole motor or a 3-pole unit. The more precise the servo, the less corrections one will continually have to make so the less work it will be to fly. But a badly designed and manufactured coreless motor can be an accident waiting to happen, and the inexpensive 3-polar would have been the better choice (see. the discussions in here on one major brands problems with one of their expensive series of digital servos).

5 - drivers - the digitally driven servo will have a lot more "holding power" and accelerate to speed at least 5 times faster then an analogue unit. So on your gyro you will find a 3 times slower (0.22 seconds) digital servo with a coreless motor will work better then a much faster (.06 seconds) analoque unit. This is true even when using the most basic type of piezo gyros. (as above, this is all presupposing reliability)

So after all of this one can conclude that the marketing hype and numbers are of very little real practical use except to compare similar product. e.g. the 3000 series Futaba servos to other 3000 series Futaba servos, the 500 series of JR servos to other 500 series of JR servos or 500 series of HiTech servos to other 500 series Hi-Tech units.

So how to use these numbers? As a rule of thumb, if you are comparing apples to apples, then speed is of greater importance then torque in the throttle and gyro/rudder application with torque taking preference in cyclic and collective applications, with 45 in/oz a minimum here for any 30/46 class helis and 60 in/oz for 60 class and 70 in/oz for 80/90 class units.

So after all that verbal dyhrea, the answer is that anything as good as or better then the basic dependable Futaba S-148 is all you will need for training on your Hawk Sport. As some budget servos are far more dependable/reliable then others, just be sure to choose proven reliable units. (note, here have been discussions on the net on some less relaible lower priced servos also.)

Phil
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ncostes
Veteran
Location: US

I use Hitec 425BB servos on my hawks.
dual ball bearing, and they seem to be fine for my ability (I'm still trying to master just flying around , no aerobatics for me)

And they are $13 or so from servocity.com (i got mine through a local hobby shop).
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

unbelievably vague.

Man Phil,

That's the first time, I've seen you be so vague about something and post such a long topic about it at the same time . (or something like that ). Are you trying to avoid a flame war and state your opinion at the same time?

I wouldn't buy the S148's cuz they cost too much for what they offer (other than reliability). The S148's don't have BB's of any kind, are slower than most, and have average torque.

I don't even know where they get the idea that the S148 is a "precision servo." That thing has more slop than pigs food.

That being said, they are more than adequate for the beginner with a 30-sized heli. Plus their high reliability factor is a plus. I'd still rather recommend the HS-425BBs.

It's just that the S148s should be selling them for $8-10 instead of the usual $14-20.

FYI, Hitec 425's are dual BB'd. BB on top and bottom. I recall, when they first started making these, they claimed them as BB'd and only had a BB up top and a bushing in the bottom. The difference between the new and old are, the old are referred to has 425s, and the new ones are called 425BB...

Since we all love BB's in your heli's, having two more on each servo will increase the BB count in your heli by 10! Woo hoo!

Oh yeah! I got 63 BB's on my Falcon SE! It's all BB'd out! .

Jimmy (flying off the deep end).
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

BB count

LOL Jimmy that is a good one - increased BB count.

I was trying to convey the importance of researching product from users instead of swallowing ad hype.

I didn't think I was vaque at all. Sating the importance of various issues clearly....just because I didn't name brands and models shouldn't seem vaque.

I was using the lowly S-148 servo as an example of dependability and the fact that I would rather use it (with all its slop but super dependability) then some expensive top brand expensive digital that has just been recalled.

Then I think I was pretty clear on the rest of the requirements, but I didn't think I had to list all my favorites and why they are so.

See, it brought out a great post by you that not only stated what you liked but how it is constructed, how dependable it is etc, These are what makes for an inteligent post....thank you for you insightful answer relating to your choice of HiTech 425BB. As I have very little experience with Hi-Tech servos (non with the 425 or 425BB) and what I had was not very positive I cannot comment on them.

To be more direct, the servos that are currently available that I have absolute confidence in recommending and that I have flown for many hours are:

Futaba:
S-148 reliability but medium durability,
S-3001 as with the S-148
S-9202 - great reliability, excellent durability, very good precision, great value for the money
S-9205 - great reliability, good durability, very good precision, but considering its cost I would spend the little bit more required for the S-9250 or 9253 digital units
S9250 and S-9253 - great reliability, good durability (but the metal gears wear faster then do the mylon equivalents), excellant precision and the quick action and holding power more then makes up for the slightly faster gear wear.

JR-4131 (replaced by the 8131?) (I flew JR exclucively) for over 10 years and these were the only ones that I found to be as dependable as the futabas listed above. But this 4131 was a real precision workhorse... like the Futaba 9202 with a little more torque but unfortunately a lot more money.

There are many others obviously that I have used over the years but non that I could recommend for reliability like these. Considering the information in my initial post, you should be able to figure which ones to use for which applications and for which budget.

NOTE: This does not mean there are not others out there that may be a as dependable but I can safely say that those above have passed my strict criteria for servo choices.

OK, maybe this is all "less vaque" but it should still be adequately "politically correct"

P.S. When I get some extra time maybe I will get som HT425's and give them a try....I have been looking for some inexpensive dual BB servos that I could recommend for the Hawk. (I really liked the old dual BB Futaba S-5202 (?) servos but they were discontinued a good number of years ago.
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
scuffer
Heliman
Location: Southeast PA

Hitec HS-605BB Experience?

This thread got me to take a look at some Hitec servos.

Does anyone have any experience with the HS-605BB?

The specs look very good and the price is low. I would be willing to try these out if they have a good reliability factor.
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Hitec 605BBs

scuffer,

The one thing I've been told about the 605BB's, that I can verify is that their centering isn't as good as some other standard servos. I have given my airplanes for precision flyers to fly (w/out telling them there are 605BBs in them) and that's what they complain about. Personally, I can't tell the difference.

As far as reliability, I've got 4 605BBs, in 2 airplanes and 1 heli. The heli has the 605BB on the collective, and has had about 35 flights without problems. The airplanes have had over 600 flights on them w/out problems (on rudder and ailerons). However, I''ve had these servos for less than a year (I fly my planes alot, or I used to fly everyday).

Give me about 5 more years and I'll be more qualified to comment on their reliability .

Jimmy
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

reliability testing and precision

scuffer & Jimmy

As I tried to make clear in my first post, these are both specs that are far more important then the numbers given on the packaging or in ads. So only test flying over a long period of time will prove reliability. I do not consider a servo reliable until it has taken a pounding in a helicopter (not airplane) for over 400 flights in a sixty and 800 or so in a 30/46/50 size. That way I know I will relegate them to some other duty before they could fail on me.

What does a precision control system offer that one with less precision doesn't? More control with less stick movement. Think of it like the steering on a car. Which would you rather drive....specially down a straight, open stretch of highway in very gusty winds....a car with loose steering or a car with tight steering? Believe me the loose car will require a lot more work to keep where you want it then the tight car. If you have never driven a really tight car, then it would be hard to tell the difference between two relatively looser ones. But once you have driven a really tight one and got used to it, you will not like driving a loose one.

There is a night and day difference between hovering a Hawk SE (bearings on all controls and good blades) with tight, accurate, fast response servos such as the Futaba S9250 digitals (a very precision control system example) and the Hawk Sport without the bearing upgrade and the 605BB's (a less precision example) in even mildly gusty winds. Upstairs trying to consistantly perform the same manuever, in the same piece of sky at the same speed will be very difficult with the less precision example. In both cases the flight can be done, but the less precision unit will require much more stick twiddling, mental awareness and reflex reaction and have to be kept a lot higher off the ground and in a lot more airspace then with the more precision unit.

A good comparison of workload and precision would be to use one in a "bottle knock" contest in a wind (or even calm for that matter) and then the other. Here you will find it much easier to place your heli right where it is needed to smoothly knock over the bottles with the more precise set up. With the other, it will be a lot more work and you will find yourself wandering around a lot more in trying to do so.

Fortunately we generally are not competing to see who can be more precise in their performance of maneuvers. We are more concerned with having fun and just doing the maneuver. So if the price is right, they are not causing crashes, and you have a smile on your face, then go for it!!

Phil
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

Something to consider when choosing servo..

My experience in RC over the last 12 years has been that these servos are happy when placed in the RIGHT application. What I am saying is that a servo that has say 40 in/oz torque used in 30 size heli under aggressive flight will not fair well on some of the controls over time as the next level up.

When inputs are given something has to give. Be it the control horn moving or the servo stalling something must give. Over time the stresses placed on the servo will wear the output shaft, gear train, motor ect. So, IMHO it best to go slightly above minimum when choosing servos. I consider Futaba 148s, JR 537s, and Hitec 425s to be minimum choices. Yes, the will work fine. FOR AWHILE!! Then, one of these experiences a premature failure due to the overwork and you just lost all your savings by going cheap. Crash repairs will wash it out.

So, I say do it right from the beginning. Go for the Futaba 9202s, JR 8131s and be done with it for MANY cases of fuel. Nothing beats peace of mind and trust in your electronics to make your flight experinece a pleasure!
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ncostes
Veteran
Location: US

At $13 a servo you can replace all your hitec 425BBs for the cost of one higher end servo So if you don't trust them to run for a long time, swap-em out
09-19-2002 Over year old.
 
 
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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > What servos for Hawk Sport?
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