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Ace Hobby . Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC

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Tandem Rotor Helis Vertol Chinook > Chinook
 
 
rha
Heliman
Location: North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

Hi Guys

I have built a true scale Chinook from scratch using the Vario fuselage as a starting point, I'm new to this forum business and don't know how to post photos so have a look at http://gallery.vario-helicopter.org...chard_Addington

I see from reading some of the threads in this forum that some of you are or have been pilots or crewmen of full size Chinooks and you may be able to help me with my setup.

It seems to me that the Chinook is basically a skateboard carrying a large house brick with 2 forward tilting rotors (front 9 degrees, back 4 degrees). Whilst conducting initial test flights of the mechanics I have found that when applying rotor pitch the helicopter starts to move in a forwards direction first, I can understand this as the rotors are tilted forward and will apply forward thrust. As the whole thing is on wheels and level ground then its going to move forward first before lifting off the ground (path of least resistance, vectors and all that!).

I'm using a tandem rotor control board TH-2 from Tech Model Products Inc. so I have DCP (Differential Cyclic Pitch) on the front and rear rotors, to lift the front rotor by applying backwards elevator only makes the suituation worse as the collective on the rear rotor is reduced.

Can anyone help me with how the full size helicopter flies, I have tried to contact the British RAF but as yet have not had any response.

Regards, Richard
10-14-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Brett Sumpter
Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

It'll hover nose-high several degrees - you'll have to add a bit of aft stick when lifting off to correct the attitude as you're adding thrust. Yes, that'll reduce the aft rotor & increase the fwd rotor's collective pitch - real one works the same way

In the real thing the pilot will hold the brakes on until fully airborne if space is tight to keep it from moving, otherwise they tend to roll fwd a few feet.
10-14-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Huey Driver
Senior Heliman
Location: Stedman N.C.

Hi ; latch on to Joel Duvall hes on the forum and a Chinook crew cheif in the sand box at present but a wealth of information,cheers Mac

it's time to kick the skids and light the fire's
10-14-2005 Over year old.
 
 
joelduval
Senior Heliman
Location: Canby, Oregon

I would love to help. what kind of questions you got for me.
I have some for you.
Like where did you get those mechs.
I want them.
PM me or email me.
Always willing to help out.
I really want these mechs

2 rotors are better than one
10-17-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
joelduval
Senior Heliman
Location: Canby, Oregon

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...9/IMG_0111-.jpg
Notice the nose high attitude while we are on this afghan mountian. We are still hovering. A little back pressure on the sticks will cause this for you model. You could even trim it out to do this naturally as a neutral position if you like.

2 rotors are better than one
10-17-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rha
Heliman
Location: North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

Thanks for posting the photo Joel, one day I'll work out how to do it......!

The mechanics are based on the Vario fuselage, I wanted to build a Chinook but larger than the Hirobo one. Originally I was going to build the fuse as well but decided I had enough to do just to make the mechanics and the Vario fuse was about the right size anyway.

The fuse is basically a tube with a front and rear end caps, to get at all the important bits for maintenance and setting I'm going to cut a section out along the fuse just above the window line. This cut line matches up with one of the full size panel lines so it will not look out of place when it's finished.

Test flying the mechanics is going well but slow, had another good session on Sunday with the added bonus that it's still in one piece!! I need to be a bit more confident about applying power and getting the nose up level quickly as at the moment I do long rolling take offs. Maybe I should fit brakes to the wheels then I could lift off without rolling forwards like Brett pointed out.
10-17-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Salty
Elite Veteran
Location: Jville Fl...Ahhhh getting better

you know brakes wouldnt be a horribly bad idea, at first I was thinking of disks (like rc cars use) then for the application that would be entirly to complicated...BUT then I thought of this, why not something like a cam lock, take a cog drill a fairly decent sized hole in it, then use a servo with flex cable to basically jam up the rear wheels (mount the cog on the inside of the single wheel mount and put the output cable right above that so when actuated the cable slides into the hole) to get it to lock, you just gotta roll forward a tad or lock it prior to flight, and can unlock or lock at will....simple but may work....I may have a go at that on my vertol...

"What the HELL was that?" Mayor of Hirshima 6 Aug 1945.
10-17-2005 Over year old.
 
 
rha
Heliman
Location: North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

Good simple idea rotorsyco, may try that myself later on.

I did consider locking the rear wheels up all together for the time being but I think if your quick and brave enough to apply power you can limit the forward travel.

I'm very good at taxi'ing around the field and might join a rc car club..!
10-17-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Salty
Elite Veteran
Location: Jville Fl...Ahhhh getting better

Quote 
I'm very good at taxi'ing around the field and might join a rc car club..!

HAA! LMAO

give the car guys a run for their $

actually looked at making the nose wheel on my vertol steerable....turned out way to complicated when you can hover taxi...

then I got the itch to convert the 46 into a 47 spec ops bird, havent actually started that conversion yet, may be more trouble than its worth and may just contact jeff green at hirobo and see if I cant buy an unpainted 47 fuse...I'm a stickler for detail and at the rate this vertol build is going it'll be the equivalent to a du-bro whirly bird (technologically speaking) by the time I'm finished....

BTW love the ship! wish I had the time and the machines to crank a sucker like that out!

"What the HELL was that?" Mayor of Hirshima 6 Aug 1945.
10-17-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Eyal M.
Heliman
Location: Israel

Hi Rich,
Did you have another test since we discussed?
If everything is set up as we discussed than as I explained before the only reason for your nose down and rolling forward would be either unbalanced CG or the pitch of the rear is larger than the front.
In my huge tandem I have the nose immediattelly rising up and I have to keep watch on the stick so it wouldn't roll backwards, a bit more pitch and thrust and it hovers. The same with landing, allways the rear touches down first.
Regards,
Eyal.
10-17-2005 Over year old.
 
 
rha
Heliman
Location: North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

Hi Eyal

I'm pretty confident that the setup is correct now, the pitch's are equal and the CG is correct. I've moved the position of the throttle servo away from the engine ignition components and that has solved the glitch problem I was having.

The problem now is with me....... I had some good low level flights on Sunday but need to be brave enough to gain some height and break away from the "ground effect". The front end lifts ok but if you don't keep on applying thrust to lift the back end also then you just move forward and travel down the field.

I have reduced the TH-2 settings to the default values but I think I still have too much elevator or DCP gain as the flights were like a nodding donkey....!!!!! or it could have been just me.

Anyway its all good fun and it's still in one piece.

regards, Richard
10-17-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Eyal M.
Heliman
Location: Israel

Hi Rich,
It's fun to see your creation plays... Anyway, as I told you the DCP is very strong affecting. I use 25% and the Co-Pilot stabilizer is helping me to keep the aileron and pitch axes level when I take my hand for a moment from the sticks.
Did you connect to Skype yet? I would like to talk with you, let me know when you have the setup.
Regards,
Eyal.
10-17-2005 Over year old.
 
 
rha
Heliman
Location: North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

Take your hands from the sticks.......................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You must be joking, mine are glued on!

Must be that Co Pilot doing the work for you, got Sat Nav fitted yet?

As for Skype, what with Tel, Fax, Emails, Cell phone and SMS in my office I'd never have time for any fun. Will look into it though.

Regards, Richard

BTW Sets of mechanics are available complete with TH-2GP's if required.
10-17-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Phil_Mart
Veteran
Location: Newcastle UK

Hi Richard,

Its Phil with the Air wolf. Got me Alouette II gasser

If you want to have a play with a Co-Pilot I've got a spare one sitting in the work shop doing nothing. If so I can bring it down to the field next time, hopefully this Sunday. If needs be I could always leave it with Martin or one of the other lads.

Philip Martin.
10-17-2005 Over year old.
 
 
joelduval
Senior Heliman
Location: Canby, Oregon

I would say for converting the 46 to a much better bird, the 47, you should just get the new fuse. and modify the mechs. They are two totally different airframes and it would me more work than you asked for. Just a thought

2 rotors are better than one
10-18-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rha
Heliman
Location: North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

Hi Phil

Thought it was you when I saw your post about plumbing a Zenoah 230rc, I was going to reply but someone beat me to it. Good luck with the Aloutte, would love to see it or some photos soon, I fancy one myself but I should finish off the Huey once the Chinooks up and running.

I would like to borrow your Co Pilot if thats ok just to see what effect it has, It may not get fitted cause I believe these devices give a you a false sense of security and you don't feel whats really going on with the trim.

Anybody else have an opinion on Co Pilots and their use?

Should see you on Sunday, weather permitting of course. I've been flying the Chinook in my field at home so far but I might bring it down to the club on Sunday.

Richard
10-18-2005 Over year old.
 
 
rha
Heliman
Location: North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

Looks like the Co Pilot issue has been well and truly covered in this forum so forget the above question, I've read all the threads associated with it and looks like some like it, some don't.
10-18-2005 Over year old.
 
 
jgoodsell
Heliman
Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada

Hello Richard,

I Was reading this thread an I was wondering how this project is turning out. I'm dying to see some finiched pictures of this amaizing bird.

Still don't belive you actualy scrach built.. tham !
11-12-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rha
Heliman
Location: North Yorkshire, United Kingdom

Hi jgoodsell

Progress to date is that the bare mechanics have flown allthough not very much, you will appreciate that this is not a helicopter "out of a box" and if built to the instructions will have a very good chance of flying. Its a slow process to get all the settings correct both mechanically and electronically. You only need to look at some of the threads on this forum about setting up Multi-Blade heads, and I've got 2 of them....!!!!

There have been some issues around my use of the TH-2 tandem rotor controller, but hopefully these will be resolved shortly. This weekend I'm in the process of changing over to using a FS-8 Co Pilot with receiver but unfortunatley didn't get a matching crystal, so the project is stopped once again.

Some work has been done on the fuselage, mainly due to the bad weather in the UK and not being able to fly.

To see the latest photos take a look at my Vario site
http://gallery.vario-helicopter.org...chard_Addington

Regards, Richard
11-12-2005 Over year old.
 
 
jgoodsell
Heliman
Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada

I'm am presuming yu based your construction on Hirobo's model ! since you certainly need a reference point to start !!

Doesn't Hirobo have a 3 axis Gyro that could help you out on this project ??
Just a thought I had ..
probably doesn't apply to your mechanical set-up
11-12-2005 Over year old.
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