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HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter

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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > OS50 + Muscle Pipe Tuning Weirdness
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Hi All,

I finally have My OS50SX+Muscle Pipe broken in and tuned in.

The biggest surprise I have got to tell you is the needle settings.

My setup is: OS50+Muscle Pipe + Header Tank + PowerMaster 10% fuel.

Final needle settings are: idle screw 20 degrees leaner from stock. Hi speed needle is 3/4 turns (two click less than 3/4 turn)!!!

And, I've got the standard 1/8" gap between pipe and header.

The reason for this post is, I originally posted that my OS50SX+Muscle Pipe + standard gap was locking my headspeed at around 1500 or so rpms.

THIS IS WRONG.

The problem was, I was WAY TOO RICH, at 1 3/4 turns out at the high speed.

Here is the problem I encountered with the OS50+ CY Muscle pipe that led me astray on the needle settings.

I started break in at 2.5 turns out. With this setting, the OS50 has a rich spot at around 40% throttle. But once you get past this, you get plenty of power.

As I leaned out the main needle from 2.5 to 2.0 turns, I slowly gained more power.

Then, from 2.0 turns to 1.75 turns, there was a rather large gain in power.

Then, from 1.75 turns out to 1.25 turns out, I started loosing power. Weird. So I thought, I was leaning out, and kept needle at 1.75 turns for the longest time.

Finally, one of the more experienced flyers, saw me flying it this way. Walked up to my heli, and gave the needle a good twist. I was in horror, but he insisted I try flying it this way. Man, did those blades spool up a heck of alot faster.

Anyways, he told me to hover it around, then land, and then he kept leaning it out, and we ended up at around 3/4 turns by the time he was done and happy. Then he did the spit test, and said, "see, your engine ain't even hot, the spit didn't sizzle."

They got a sky tach out, and we tach'd out my hover headspeed.

It was at a whopping 1990 rpms.

What I found out is, my head speed is so fast now, that the collective servo doesn't have enough torque to push the blades through the whole pitch range!!!

I guess Hitec 545's aren't enough for a 50-sized heli!!! heheheh.

Oh, btw, it hovered just fine with 1990rpm headspeed, so I don't think my thrust bearing in the head are locking up.

Even more hilarious, was the climbouts were slower than when I had a slower headspeed heheheh.

Finally, I'm happy to report to you guys, that my glitch problem is gone. I found it. The problem was, I made a modification to the switch mount so it sticks out. However, it wasn't bolted down tight enough, and the bolts were rubbing against the metal side frames. Now I have those bolts completely insulated from the side frames.

Jimmy

P.S. Did I mention this is on a Falcon SEv2, that's why I'm posting it here? heheh.

Now, that I've seen 1990 rpms, I know that my Hawk SE blades were going faster than this when the throttle got stuck on full. I'm guessing maybe 2100 rpms... Glad the engine didn't blow up, that's the engine's redline already.
09-08-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Ray Fernandez
Elite Veteran
Location: Guam (U.S.A.)

Jimmy,

Glad to hear that you are happy to hear how well the engine sound with it running leaner. I guess I could say, "I told you so", but that would be rubbing it in, wouldn't it? (Hehehehe)

In any case, the heli sounds good and you'll notice quite a bit of performance from now on. Just get your pitch curves in order and you'll be burning the skies up again.

Ray Fernandez - GUAM
09-08-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Hey Ray,

At least, now I know why, after you seeing me fly one, you wanted to get one .

I just did some trial and error on the sim, and I must have been rolling/looping/flipping and hovering that bird inverted, while it was glitching and with a super rich engine to the tune of 1200 rpm headspeed. Gawd! I'm crazy sometimes. After you seeing me do that w/out problems on a LOW headspeed. I'm sure you thought to yourself, "Damn that's going to be a nice bird, once he gets everything right!!!" heheheh.

Wish I caught that on video tape.

Man, do I have loads of power now! The thing I like the most is the smoke. The smoke output looks just like them videos I've been downloading. Love that smoke trail, especially on take offs.

After you guys left, Frank did a hand feel test, and compared the weight of his Raptor30 against my Falcon50. Guess what? The Falcon is lighter . Of course, his heli is super upgraded, maybe all that extra metal is weighing it down . I wouldn't be surprised if we saw another Falcon on the field in the next couple of months .

Jimmy

P.S. Hey Ray, do you have an extra plastic clutch bell? Frank burned out his clutch bell that day. I just checked my spares inventory, and all I have is an extra clutch.

Yeah Ray, I'll admit it, you told me multiple times at the field, that my engine was running, WAY TOO RICH! Heh, I should've told you why I felt it wasn't .
09-09-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Ray Fernandez
Elite Veteran
Location: Guam (U.S.A.)

Sorry....no extra clutch bell. I tried looking for one but no luck. I guess he'll have to order one later.

Jimmy, did you "sell" the idea to Frank to purchase a Falcon? He actually has my old Falcon III which he can upgrade. In reality, that bird flew quite well and had not been pushed to the limit.

Your heli will have alot of power , no doubt about it. The smoke trail looks good!

I am probably guessing that since you have the engine to where you want it, I will be seeing you at the field later this afternoon. Burn up the skies!

Ray Fernandez - GUAM
09-09-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Update

Just to update you guys:

I swapped out the Hitec 545 on the collective with a Futaba S9450. And, the heli still acted the same way (slow climbouts)

I am now led to believe, that I have a bad set of FRP blades.

I just changed the blades out tonight with the original Hurricane blades. If I have a chance, I'll try 'em out tommorrow to see if it's the blades that are causing the problem.

Actually heli flew around fine with the FRP blades, but I was pushing some +14 up top to get a half-way decent climb rate.

I now think that the 545's are prolly up to the job of collective for this heli (man, I hate retracting my statements :mad. I won't know for sure until a few weeks. I will be busy.

Jimmy
09-09-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Ray Fernandez
Elite Veteran
Location: Guam (U.S.A.)

Hey Jimmy,

I doubt it is the FRP blades that is causing your slow climb outs. You'd probably have to check on the relationship of the throttle servo and collective servo because if your throttle servo is slower than the collective servo, it is causing a delay and the engine would be "fighting" to keep up with the pitch curve.

Just an idea.

Ray Fernandez - GUAM
09-10-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

It's the blades.

It's been a week, but I finally had a chance to sneak out of the house, even though I still got a cold.

Switched out the FRP's and stuck back on the OEM Hurricanes, and I can get pretty good climbouts on +10 degrees now!

I also managed to bog the engine down (finally), by giving max +10 degrees collective, and max aft cyclic at the same time. Of course, the OS50 was only at 80% throttle .

Tonight I got the cyclic->throttle mixing dialed in, and I also changed the bell-hiller mix ratios, and increased cyclic throws to 6 degrees.

This is going to be one fun bird.

The only thing is. I find myself to be flying really really CONSERVATIVELY lately. I guess this is what happens when you ball it up real bad. I also am not flying as smoothly as before.

Darnit! Three weeks is just too long of a break from flying.

Oh well, this bird is flying good. I'm thinking about switching back to the Hitec 545's, because as it stands now, I'll have 2 digital servos (102 oz/in.) in the heli sucking juice. On the second flight, the tail kicked around on a hard cyclic+collective maneuvre, I think the voltage dropped too low for the gyro....

Also, I tested out my tail mods! It is sweet! Can you say, 4.5 piros per second, during 30-45mph forward flight? Oh yeah! And this is both left and right. I wonder if I stripped any gears??? Oh well, I think smaller blades plus higher angles is less work for the gears, vs. larger blades.

Jimmy
09-14-2002 Over year old.
 
 
rckrzy1
Elite Veteran
Location: Hurst Texas

It was at a whopping 1990 rpms.

What I found out is, my head speed is so fast now, that the collective servo doesn't have enough torque to push the blades through the whole pitch range!!!

I guess Hitec 545's aren't enough for a 50-sized heli!!! heheheh.

Oh, btw, it hovered just fine with 1990rpm headspeed, so I don't think my thrust bearing in the head are locking up.

Even more hilarious, was the climbouts were slower than when I had a slower headspeed heheheh.



BS on the 545's, I run them on my 60's with 680's and + - 10 degrees.
And 1990 is dangerous.



Wildcat Fuels
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

Why in the hell would you want to be turning 1990RPM??? What can you do with that headspeed that you can't at 1850 or so?

I would say it probably is your thrust bearings actually. You won't notice it when you're hovering, but you probably would in climbouts as the collective servo would not be able push the swashplate due to the TREMENDOUS force imparted on the blade grips at that headspeed.

Si

-------------
Simon Lockington
09-18-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Ray Fernandez
Elite Veteran
Location: Guam (U.S.A.)

When the engine ran up to 1990, we had just readjusted the high end needle.

Jimmy took it up and I tached the heli at 1990. We also understood it was quite high and so......lowered the headspeed. You really didn't think we'd actually leave it 1990, do you???

In any case, the heli is now running well (at a lower RPM). It just goes to show you how powerful the OS .50 can be.

Ray Fernandez - GUAM
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

followups

I think I mentioned it in a previous post.

But I'll mention it again.

a) thrust bearings are fine.

At first I thought it was the servo, but I swapped it out with a hi torque digital and it still did the same exact thing.

Then I swapped out the blades, and everything is back to normal.

So to summarize again,

a) Hitec 545BBs are good for the collective
b) I had Funky blades.
c) 1990 rpms didn't sound all that fast, it was verified to be this speed with a MA Skytach.

Anyways, I took a close look at the blades, and they are upsidedown semi-symmetrical FRP blades. That is the problem. Whomever built these must have been really confused, or in a hurry, or asleep at the helm. If I dial +13 on top and -5 on the bottom, they work great.

I'm tossing them blades in the trashcan. So if anyone wants 'em they gotta pipe up soon.


Jimmy
09-19-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Ray Fernandez
Elite Veteran
Location: Guam (U.S.A.)

Jimmy,

Give me the blades and let me take a look at them.

Ray Fernandez - GUAM
09-19-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Todd
Senior Heliman
Location: Nashville, TN

Check it!!
09-19-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > OS50 + Muscle Pipe Tuning Weirdness
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