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Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC . Mikado Modellhubschrauber

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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > Falcon 50 SE II - Center of Gravity
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

First I want to get the model back to a more neutral trim. I am 4-5 clicks forward trim upright hover and 4-5 clicks trim inverted hover off center. With a properly balanced model I don't know if it is possible to achieve a perfect balance for both orientations.

Although I haven't tried it yet. I'm pretty sure that some more extra forward weight should fix both of these problems.

Jimmy
09-10-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

Results of Testing!!!!!

Guys,
Well, I spent the weekend flying and testing the results of my CG adjustments. What I did was add a 4oz round(shaped like a quarter) fishing weight to the nose of my canopy. This gave me a tad over 1" of tilt front to rear on the skids when lifted by the flybar.

On the first flight I IMMEDIATELY took the Falcon upstairs to test the rolls and inverted stabliliy. WOW! much improved.

So, I slapped on my Gamma 600mm blades and noticed that the FF pitchiness was also reduced. So, I had two problems using the wood blades. One, the FF pitchiness(and pitching up) as well as the CG/trim issue.

Now, I do think that I will reduce the weight from 4oz to 3oz so that the backwards flight doesn't suffer as much. I did notice that the model displayed some nose-heaviness in backwards flight.

Just wanted to let you guys know about the results. Thanks for the exchange of ideas!!!!! Is this board great or what????
09-16-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gforce
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville FL

Well that is perty good if you only had to add 3oz of weight to get her to be right on. I really dig getting to the bottom of things like this.
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

initial post on subject

Hi Payton,

Nice to see that your experiments have proven my initial posting here on this subject on Sept 07.

Now if you work more on blades, you will find that the more dynamic stable the design of the blade, the less trim difference also. This means the more predictable and repeatable will be a heli through all manuevers.

That is why 4 of the top 10 competitors in the top catagory (FAI/F3C) at your USA Nats used the Rotor-Tech mainblades even though they had blade sponsorship by other manufacturers..... some choosing to pay for these blades rather then use freebees.

Phil
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

That is why 4 of the top 10 competitors in the top catagory (FAI/F3C) at your USA Nats used the Rotor-Tech mainblades even though they had blade sponsorship by other manufacturers..... some choosing to pay for these blades rather then use freebees.

Hey Phil what do you think about the Vortex blades? I never even considered the Rotor-techs cuz they are black .

Jimmy
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gforce
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville FL

You know what they say, once you fly black, you never go back.

I fly black blades and really like them. When I flew white blades, I was always looking at the rotor disk for information of the heli's attitude. But once I started flying black blades, and the disk was gone, I had to learn to look at the heli for information, and not the disk. It took a few flights for me, but now I can't stand flying white blades, because alot of the time they hide the heli, and I can't see it properly.
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

blades

Jimmy,

The Vortex blades are a fairly good C/F blade but are relatively basic C/F blades (like a number of others now on the market) compared to the more refined Rotor Tech units.

Gforce,

I agree 100%. It took me a while to adjust to the black blade, but my flying orientation has improved since doing so. For example in the FAI hovering maneuvers, I find flying the canopy really helps in straight lift offs to eye level and straight landings into the center circle. I also found it helped immensely in hitting the flags.

Upstairs orientation also became more consistant, specially in slow flips from a side on orientation.

Alexander,

Yes, your posts also supported these facts. Isn't it great to see these younger fellas discovering the same things we did.....and in the same way? This certainly reinforces the old saying "history is doomed to keep repeating itself every generation"

Phil
09-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gforce
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville FL

Payton, I am going to try the Falcon graphite boom. The description on the Heli World web site says it is ultra light weight. Their part #CN2126F

http://centuryheli.com/support/manu...f/Picture37.gif

I am going to weigh the difference between this one and the aluminum when I get it. Should be interesting to see how much difference there is. Then I will cg it and add weight as needed.

The only thing I do not like about it is replacement cost of the tail boom is $28 graphite, $11 aluminum, and you don't get the graphite in the crash kit.
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

Falcon CF Boom

Glenn,
As you probably know the CF booms are not as rigid as aluminum. I seriously doubt that you will save much. Were talking grams here and my heli needed 3-4ozs to balance out. That is with a rear servo mount, CF Tail rotor pushrod, CF Fins, Alum boom clamp, CF tail blades, etc.

But, if you go that route let me know how it turns out.

Also, how did you find that link above? I have never seen that listing and am curious where it is found. When I try to work backwards through the URL I don't see where you clicked.
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gforce
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville FL

See post below
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gforce
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville FL

Quote 
Also, how did you find that link above? I have never seen that listing and am curious where it is found. When I try to work backwards through the URL I don't see where you clicked.


On Heli-World's home page, there is a section on the right side of the page called:

THE BLUE PRINTS (PARTS DEPT.)
(Instruction Manuals)

In there click on Hawk/Falcon SE

then click on

parts 2

is has parts for the Falcon there and upgraded parts at the bottom.
09-18-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gjestico
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, B.C.

Here is my solution to the Falcon balance issue, I too have a rear mounted TR servo, When I started doing rolls they were really ugly.
I made a new lower tray for the radio platform. This tray puts the battery as far forward as it can get under the canopy, allows room behind it for the reciever and bolts on using the existing holes.
The pictures are on my Yahoo webpage, follow this URL:

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/gjestico.../Falcon&.view=t

There is also a pic of the rear TR pushrod support there as well. I made the tray from .05" 6061, anodised blue. it weighs only 1/2 ounce more than the existing plastic mount, with this installed my falcon has about 1/2" at the rear of the skids with the front just touching.

Greg
09-23-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gforce
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville FL

Payton,

Got the CF tail boom today (slightly damaged, )

The weight difference is:

Aluminum boom = 60.3 grams or 2.13oz
CF boom = 35.6 grams or 1.26 oz

So now I need to get an undamaged one, install it, and see how much weight I need up front to balance it.

Greg,

I like the idea of the longer radio tray, I just hate adding weight to my heli's.
09-26-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gforce
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville FL

.
09-26-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

Glenn,
I agree about adding weight. It sure leaves that sour taste doesn't it.


Let me know how the CF boom works out. I am interested. That is nearly a whole oz!!!!
09-26-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gforce
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville FL

CG update

Century was quick to get me a new CF boom. I did have to start a damaged goods report through ups, but as soon as they got a confirmation # they sent me a new one out priority mail. Only took a few days.

I am getting closer on the CG. With the carbon boom installed, and 2oz. of lead weight in the nose of the canopy, I am at 1/2" on the rear of the skids, higher then the front. I am going to fly it here and see how she does before adding more weight. This is with my 1700mah nicad pack hanging over the front of the stock radio tray one inch.
10-01-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gforce
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville FL

How exactly would you do that Stephen?
10-01-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

Gents,
Bench dampening "feels" fairly soft on the Falcon SE. But, in flight the dampening is indeed crisp. I have to agree with Stephen that this machine does not track straight in rolls without some FORE and AFT adjustment. Even after optimizing the CG.

But, now that I have optimized my CG I am able to hover upright and inverted with the swashplate MUCH closer to level without as much input. The backwards flight is a tad pitchy but certainly manageable and graceful. Overall, once you get the CG sorted out the machine handles well. But, out of the box with the stock paddles and no CG adjustment it lacks in some areas.

I am having a horrible time trying to get nose in stationary rolls to play nice. Most likely it is pilot related but I seem to do them fairly well on my Raptor 60. Don't know but I keep putting ALOT of time on the Falcon SE. I guess it is a fatal attraction of sorts.
10-01-2002 Over year old.
 
 
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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > Falcon 50 SE II - Center of Gravity
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