rrTV-PHOTO   New HD TV
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 816 ONLINE 26 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
3 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ]3851 viewsPOST REPLY
Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

.
.
e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > ECO8 Aluminium Side Frames
 
 
heli_madken
Senior Heliman
Location: Liverpool, England

Hi,

I recently upgraded my ECO8 with Aluminium side frames, on the second flight whilst setting up I had what I would class as a light bounce on grass. I noticed a vibration from the skids so landed to look the heli over and noticed that the alloy had split just where the front landing strut is bolted in place to the frame.

Looking at the design the hole for the strut couldnt be in a worse place as it provides only a few millimeters of metal around this stress point. I am pretty annoyed with this both at the design of the frames and myself for not spotting the potential weakness. I intend to make up a sub frame to beef up the general area in 1.5mm Carbon Sheet, in the mean time I have moved the front strut 5mm further forward where there is plenty of metal! why arent they built in that way in the first place! I bought the frames from the USA so it isnt worth my while sending back.

Has anyone else experienced this?
09-19-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Bill Collins
Senior Heliman
Location: Middletown, CT. U.S.A.

Aluminum frames are good. They just don't hold up coming in from 100 feet straight down at full speed. Never experienced any splitting / cracking like you did. I had some pretty rough landings and never had a problem.





No witty signature at this time. Please check back later......
09-19-2005 Over year old.
 
 
atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

only had a couple of flights since putting mine on but i have had a Hard landing. my ali frames held up really well in fact i thought i was gonna have to bin them.

all the best



atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
09-20-2005 Over year old.
 
 
heli_madken
Senior Heliman
Location: Liverpool, England

UPDATE!!! After effecting a repair and checking the heli over I went out to fly tonight, got less than a metre into the air when an extremely bad vibration occurred, managed to get it down safely.

When I looked it over I saw that both frames had fractured just in front of the upper bearing block!!!!, the damage is circled in yellow -



Surely this cant be right, I have not crashed the helicopter and I have just spent a fortune on it including hardened shafts, aluminium head and new MAH carbon blades, during initial hover setups it flew smooth as silk, head speed, pitch curve, blade balance and tracking all great for an initial setup. The helicopter is otherwise in perfect shape -



It strikes me looking at the frames that they are just not strong enough, I intend to make my own now, ordered the carbon, scanned the original plastic frames and transferred to CAD and have most of my design done.

I have written a letter to the supplier and await a response.

Surely I cant be alone with this has anyone else experienced anything like this, have I just been unlucky with a poor quality batch made from poorly stressed aluminium??

One very fed up Eco pilot!
09-20-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Rob_T
Elite Veteran
Location: Tualatin, OR - USA

I have similar frames that also failed at the same point, but only on one side, not both. (It wasn't even a hard crash, the heli just fell over after being hit by a wind gust after landing when I wasn't paying enough attention!)

I repaired mine by JB-welding a steel washer over the break. It's been fine ever since.

I think there are 2 problems- one is that the frame brace increases the stress at this point. The other is that too much material has been removed at this point, either due to copying the design of the plastic frame too closely, or in an effort to save weight.

Good luck with your CF replacements. If you have the patience it is possible to make CF frames using nothing more than a scroll saw and a dremmel (been there, done that!) You can use 3M 77 spray glue to attach a CAD printout to the CF plate while you're cutting it. (CF dust is evil, so take the necessary precautions to protect yourself while working with CF).


Rob
Eco8, Piccolo Fun, Shogun, HB Elite CP, Trex 450XL CDE, Swift
09-21-2005 Over year old.
 
 
atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

Personally i think its because you have no give at all. you have the ali headblock and frame brace in it would of flexed in all of this area under the stress however it has only been able to flex in the small area in front of your headblock. i would of thought that this would cause major metal fatigue very quickly... well thats what i think im probably wrong though lol

i made a frame brace for mine but it didnt go whee everyone else puts theres i made a hollowed square with little brackets to attach it to the frame around the main shaft.

when my cameras working again (or i get a new one) ill post an image of it it made the whole assembly solid as a rock around the main shaft yet it is still able to flex in all othe areas.

another chap (yet effective) alternative is to double up the sideframes this is also a good way to go.

hope you have fun making your CF frames and good luck



atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
09-21-2005 Over year old.
 
 
heli_madken
Senior Heliman
Location: Liverpool, England

Thanks, you maybe right about the rigidity causing stress build ups, the only doubt I have is the 'stress' element, the heli didnt crash and was only in a low hover so I wouldnt have thought the area would have been over stressed, I still feel the alloy is too brittle and the dimensions too small in that area, perhaps in addition to your point.

Be interested in photos of your frame brace, I am making the frames out of 1.5mm carbon sheet and changing the design where I feel weaknesses are for instance as well as the headblock I am going to beef up the area to the front of the motor where its possible for the frame to split in two in a light crash, plus I will increase the distance between the two tail clamps.

I will try to balance weight with strength but with a powerful brushless/8000 MAH battery setup I am more akin to strengthening areas. I will post pictures when done.

Thanks again

Ken
09-21-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

id be more tempted to think about vibration coming from the head if you have the smallest amount it will absorb most of the vibration there with it having the least amount of area to cope with it. perhaps im justt being daft thinking like that lol as im sure your a good enough flyer to know if there is any lol.

perhaps maybe it could of been better if you had cut a piece of ali and backed it up to those ali side frames securing it with the screws which hold the upper bearing housing and frame brace in place (double the strength in that area). PM me your e-mail address and ill send you the design over i drew up as soon as i have sorted out my camera ill mail the pics of it over too.

all the best



atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
09-22-2005 Over year old.
 
 
heli_madken
Senior Heliman
Location: Liverpool, England

Hi,

Just looking at the helihobby supplied ali side frames they look much beefier in the area around the upper bearing block than the ones I have -

http://www.helihobby.com/html/eco_r...copter_upg.html

To be honest I cant remember if they are the ikarus supplied ones
fxaeromodels dosent state and neither does my bill, cant remember the packet I got them out of either.

Had a response from fxaeromodels who are looking into the quality of the frames, they dont mention if anyone else has experienced this and judging by the response to this thread I am on my own, never mind stuff like this is a learning curve and you always end up making improvements and flying a better heli

Thanks for your response I will post pictures of my finished frames when I am done

Ken
09-22-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

Mailed it to you



atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
09-25-2005 Over year old.
 
 
heli_madken
Senior Heliman
Location: Liverpool, England

Thanks atb for all your help and the details on your brace, I can see how it works and how it would allow some flexing over the full length upright brace.

I have had a response from fxaeromodels who say they havent had any experience in the frames failing like this in three years, they suggest putting washers either side of the frames to strengthen them which to me doesnt soound too convincing especially for the landing strut application. They have sent me a new set of frames FOC so all credit too them and at least they replied not like some other companies I have dealt with so much impressed.

Having said all that I think I will probably use my own carbon frames for the time being and put the alloy ones in the unloved corner for now, want to get some air time!

Thanks again
09-26-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

hmmm i aint too convinced about the washers either... perhaps they sell some washers to put on the skids to stop the heli from tipping over (they would of saved me a 100 quid) lol.

the main aim of that frame brace was just to add additional support around the main shaft area attaching it to the areas with as much alloy as possible to support it.

it allows some flex to the whole structure but not as much as you would of thought im sure it only weighed 10 grams or something plust the bolts but hey it works absoloutly spot on.

im glad theve at least replaced your frames shame they couldnt of sent you some carbon ones to replace them (or at least take the value of the ali ones off) lol.

no need to thank me either everyone has helped me a great deal in this forum so i am just giving back what i can.

all the best and have fun, the weather is supposed to be c**p all week though i think so we may have to wait a while.



atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
09-28-2005 Over year old.
 
 
heli_madken
Senior Heliman
Location: Liverpool, England

Sorry Rob_T for some reason I didnt see your response, at least I can see somebody else had a similar problem.

I have been messing about making heli bits out of carbon for a while now and use a CAD > 3M > Dremel and File principle all the time, I tape a hoover close to where I am cutting to take away all dust and also wear a mask and eye protection, currently got a another scratch built micro hybrid underway. Still waiting for my Carbon Sheets to get my new frames done. They will be heavier but wont break so easy!

Cheers
09-28-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
heli_madken
Senior Heliman
Location: Liverpool, England

Finally got a chance to complete my home made side frames. I designed the layout in AutoCAD by scanning in the original frames as a reference then drawing up what I wanted -



I made the frames out of 1.5mm thick carbon, I went for a kind of 'geodetic' design with diagonal crossovers.



I put loops over the motor to beef up the area just in front of the motor as this is where the standard frames tend to break. I have also beefed up the area where the landing gear connects. I also extended the distance between the tail boom clamps to make the tail as rigid as possible, this makes the frames longer than stock.




The frames weigh 30g a piece, this compares to - Aluminium 25g, Ikarus Carbon 16g and the original plastic 20g. The all up increase over stock of 20g is not noticable and in terms of rigidity and strength they beat the pants of any of the above.

The heli flys really great with them, really crisp response and smooth so I am pleased. I am updating my website at the moment and will post the CAD drawings when done, PM me if you want the drawings.

Noticed some really good carbon frames after I had started my project on RcHelibits website - http://www.rchelibits.co.uk/catalog...d3f906c647c51de so if you dont want to go to the trouble of making your own these are also made of 1.5mm Carbon and look to have strength in all the right places
10-30-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
litespeed600
Veteran
Location: St. Charles, Missouri

Great looking job on the frame, to say the least.

Looks better than any commercial frame I have seen and a lot better than my Eco 8's carbon frame. looks like it was cut out by a novice.

What's your power set up? All of it?

Mine is a Fun 600-17 with a 15 tooth pinion, CC60, 3s2p 4400, GY401 with a 81 mounted on tail, 85BB's on cylic all controlled by a 770PCM reciever. I have CF frame and boom, all aluminum head, swash and tail pieces running stock woodies. I get 1800 head speed, fly's very nice specially since I came from micro's, ie GWS Dragonfly and my Hummingbird 3D Pro.

Tom

I'm married so you know I am no stranger to pain!
10-30-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Chachin
Senior Heliman
Location: Cape Canaveral, FL

Hello Litespeed,

just wondering, what temperatures are you seeing on that 600-17 on 3S?

Thanks!

Chachin..
10-30-2005 Over year old.
 
 
litespeed600
Veteran
Location: St. Charles, Missouri

I don't have a temp guage but last night it was about 60 degrees out and I hovered the entire pack, 15 to 20 min range, and it just felt warm to my hands. I think I have prolly undergeared it, but that is only a guess!

Tom

I'm married so you know I am no stranger to pain!
10-30-2005 Over year old.
 
 
bret4
Heliman
Location: Brookfield, CT

I am trying to understand the pinion gear for a 600-17 on the eco 8. From what it says in the manual if you want a 1300 head speed you take the motor speed at the volts you are going to run and divide it by the head speed to get the pinion teeth on the gear.

So from this if a 600-17 is 1620 rpm per volt and you run 11.1v you would have 17982 at the motor divided by 1800 rpm should be a 10t pinion. At a 15t pinion you would have about 1200rpm head speed.

I am just trying to learn and understand so I can setup my 600-17 with some 8 cell packs I have around to just get in the air until I can get bigger packs. If the above is right shouldn't I run a 12t pinion with the 8cell packs to just fly around to get used to the eco 8. Should make it easy to handle at about 1300rpm head speed.

Bret
10-30-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
heli_madken
Senior Heliman
Location: Liverpool, England

Litespeed, my power setup is a Hacker B50-11L with a 15 tooth pinion, 80 Amp Pheonix ESC and a ThunderPower 3s4p 8000Mah Lipo, dont know what the head spead is but judging by the distinctive sound the blades are making I would imagine it is pretty high and performance is fantastic.

Gyro is a 401 with 9254 servo, main blades are MAH carbon with SAB 80mm tail blades adapted to a 2mm dia bolt. Head is almost all aluminium and I have fitted thrust bearings. I am using KS 3D paddles which work great and make the heli very responsive
10-30-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
litespeed600
Veteran
Location: St. Charles, Missouri

Sounds sweet. You said "Head is almost all aluminium" and "I have fitted thrust bearings" , does this mean the all aluminum head does not have the thrust bearings? I ASSumed it did.

Where did you learn or who told you about using the other branded blades? I read and read here on the internet and never seem to read in the right places. Me not knowing bought the Ikarus fiberglass ones, they do good but I wonder if others would make a difference to me or only to a 3D-er?

That 9254 servo lock that tail down tight? Mine will wag just every once in a while, seldom but very annoying to say the least. Linkage is all loose and feels smooth so I don't know if it's the servo or what. I would say it's locked down 95% of the time.

The KS paddles are from where or go on what? They heavier or lighter? Bigger or smaller?


Tom

I'm married so you know I am no stranger to pain!
10-30-2005 Over year old.
 
 
3 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ]3851 viewsPOST REPLY
Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . ZoomsHobbies

.
.
e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > ECO8 Aluminium Side Frames
  UPDATE SCREEN   PRINT TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Wednesday, October 15 - 8:45 pm - Copyright © 2000 - 2008 runryder.com | email | link to rr | runryder needs cookie