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Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter . MTA Hobbies

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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Viper 70
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

I've just finished building a Viper 70 and thought I'd share some thoughts:

I bought mine as a complete package with motor and controller. Beware! The pinion is not included. The controller supplied is a Lexors H70 which is rated at 70amp and is much too big and heavy. A smaller 40amp controller would be much more suitable. The motor, a H8, is a dead cute little outrunner.

The kit goes together quite easily and quality of the parts is good. Exception to this is the swashplate which is a nasty, bendy plastic affair in which the centre ball sticks horribly unless you attack it with a scalpel. There is plenty of pitch range for inverted flying, but watch for the ball links touching the maingear at the extreme top. You may want to cut a notch in the front of the tailboom before you fit it to give more room for the rear servo's link.

The two stage geartrain runs nice and smoothly and is equivelant to a 120 tooth single gear. The H8 motor with the recommended 19 tooth pinion gives a headspeed of about 2500rpm with a 3s battery.

The tail features a novel torque tube control. This is slop and friction free, but is let down a bit by the plastic endpeices which strip if you even look at the grubscrews harshly. The tube arrangement effectively gets rid of the servo arm, so you're totally reliant on the travel adjust in the transmitter to set the throw. I had to reduce the travel to 30% each way and this could well be a problem if you want to use a heading lock gyro that doesn't allow for end point setting.

The tail pitch slider has a roller bearing instead of the usual ballraces. This seems to me to be poor design as the flange on the end of the brass sleeve rubs on the steel case of the bearing. Despite assembling it as per the instructions with a little bit of play and oiling it, after two test flights I noticed brass filings. The brass flange had half worn away. Another two or three flights would have seen it fail. I have temporarily placed a nylon washer in here and it seems to be fine for now. Replacing the roller bearing with ballraces would seem to be the long term cure.

The canopy is pre-finished but the stickers are poorly applied with many wrinkles.

The setup at present is:
H8 outrunner motor. Lexors H70 controller. 19 tooth pinion. Flightpower 3s1p 2500mAh lipo. 4x JR 371 servos. JR G400 gyro.

How does it fly? Well it's only had some hovering and gentle flight in the garden so far but it seems very good. There is loads of power from the motor and the Flightpower 3s1p 2500mAh battery gives about 9mins of hovering. I can think of some mods to get the weight down so this might get better. The model is very smooth with no vibration and it makes a nice, non-screetchy noise. The weighted, wooden blades track well. There was an intermittant wobble on the first couple of flights, but this seems to be going away by itself. The fat tailboom and yellow canopy help orientation and the cyclic response (I left the flybar weights off) is strong but not twitchy. The hovering response is a bit soggy, probably due to that yukky swashplate. After flight, the motor and controller are only slightly warm, but the battery is up around 48C. Some vent holes in the cabin would seem advisable.

I'll add some more when it's been hammered about a bit.

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
09-13-2005 Over year old.
 
 
ozace
Key Veteran
Location: melbourne, australia

Thanks for the report, looking forward to more.

we can never have too many, can we ?
09-14-2005 Over year old.
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

Well the Viper's sitting in the "unloved" end of the workshop tonight.
I took it to the flying field today to see what it could do. I ran it up to flying revs and checked the cyclic before takeoff. All OK. Then suddenly the tailboom started trying to destroy itself with severe vibration. The cause? A tail shaft shaped like an edible yellow fruit from the Carribean.
It would seem the tail shaft is not strong enough. If the vibration had been there from the start, I could convince myself that I must have bashed it on something. But it ran up fine, then bent. No crash. No knock on the ground. It just bent.
I have heard of this happening to others too.
Fortunately my trusty ERaptor and Logo10 were on hand to raise the mood.

Looks like I'll be making a hardened tail shaft this weekend. Grrrr. I wonder if the H8 will work in a Lipoly....

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
09-15-2005 Over year old.
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

Is anyone selling a hardened tail shaft yet? What rpm were you running?
09-15-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ozace
Key Veteran
Location: melbourne, australia

Both ikarus and MS are showing hardened shafts but no one seems to have them yet. I heard the US stingers come with the hardened shafts in the box.

we can never have too many, can we ?
09-15-2005 Over year old.
 
 
atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

Why oh Why doesnt ikarus just stick hardened shafts in all their kits i can half understand the eco and all other old designs but on something as new as that they want to get a good name for it from the start instead of just grabbing every penny they can off a us.



atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
09-15-2005 Over year old.
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

OK boys and girls.
I went down my local toolshop today and found a nice little pozidrive screwdriver with a 3mm hardenend shaft for less than two quid.
Five minutes with the mini grinder and it was cut to length and two flats installed.
Ah, but all that vibration for all of less than a second has taken out my tail servo. That torque tube was twangin' like a guitar string. It's a good job the heli was on the ground and could be shut down instantly. Had it been flying around....... I dread to think. Good job I've got some spare servos.

So we're back in business. Or at least we would be if the liquid sunshine would stop. Looks like it'll be the weekend before it gets some abuse.

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
09-15-2005 Over year old.
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

Im going to have to do that as well. Third spool up today and the tail shaft went way out. Tomorrow im going to have to make one.
09-16-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

from what i have seen it will be after the wekend Tean. cant you just book the town hall or something to try it out?



atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
09-16-2005 Over year old.
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

Im hovering mine in the living room

Well i went to the hardware store today and also bought 2 swiss made screw drivers with a 3mm shaft, cut them off, ground some flat spots, and installed them. Seems to work fine. Cant wait till my orbit 10-14 and jazz 40 come next week so i can do some more testing with a REAL motor and ESC. Also it turns out my vibration issues were due to trying to run a head speed of somewhere near 2500. Thats a bit much. If i keep it around 2000 im there are no vibration issues.

2nd thing i am now noticing is that i also seem to have some timing/mixer issues in the head. Left cyclic makes the heli go left and a bit forward as well. How does one go about fixing this? I have never run into a problem like this before. I know it has to do with phasing but how do you adjust that?

Cheers,
Anni
09-16-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

Hi Anni,

Adjust the timing by slackening the clamp screw on the alumunium mixer base (6053026) and turn it slightly.
Start by aligning the main blade grips parallel to the tailboom and turn the mixer base until two of the swashplate balls point straight down the boom. Then fly it and check timing. You may need to tweek it slightly, but it shouldn't be far out.

Andy

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
09-17-2005 Over year old.
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

Hi Tean,

Which one is the clamp screw? Would that be 6053016?

Cheers,
Anni
09-17-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

That's the one!

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
09-18-2005 Over year old.
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

Flight Report

Well today dawned dark and overcast but with no wind. The umpires offered the light to the batsman but, not being Austrailian, he decided to go for it anyway.

So the Viper, sporting a modified tail control and stiffened frames around the mainshaft bearings, took to the sky for its first proper abuse. Headspeed 2400.

The first thing that struck pilot was how fast it is. It zips around the field like a wasp that's sat on its sting. Large smile starts to spread across pilot's face. In fast forward flight it's completely vice free and a joy to fly with no tendancy to pitch up. In the poor light, pilot is glad of the fat tailboom and yellow cabin and thinks about painting the tail fin orange.

Now for some rolls. Pilot has to work for his living here. He can't just bang the stick over and wiggle the pitch as it goes inverted, but with a little effort it is possible to get a straight roll around the tailboom.

Loop time. The small rotor disc starts to make itself felt. Pulling up from fast forward flight is smooth with no snatching, but it's hard to keep much forward speed into the inverted part of the loop so plenty of negative needed here. The pull out is clean with no tendancy to squat on its tailboom so plenty of speed can be carried out of the loop and another one can follow. Continuous loops are possible if pilot has had a hearty breakfast.

Stall turns next. This is probably the weakest card in the deck. As with loops, it's hard to keep enough speed out of the pull up to get a decent vertical climb.

The basics done, pilot has a play at some inverted flight and finds that the tracking doesn't go out when hovering inverted. Flips and 3D stuff are a bit raggy at the moment because the gyro isn't one of those fancy heading hold jobs and pilots brain doesn't recognise the need to fiddle with the tail. There's enough cyclic control to flip reasonably fast.

After 8 mins of this kind of stuff, the 3s1p 2500 has had enough and waves the white flag. The H8 motor hasn't even broken a sweat so a smaller (and lighter) one looks possible. Pilot congratulates himself on how much better the tail is with his front linkage mod and decides to love his new toy after all.
The Viper, unlike its reptilean namesake, is at its best just charging around at great speed either way up, and it doesn't have poisonous fangs.

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
09-18-2005 Over year old.
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

Tean,

I cant get more than about 2100 RPM on mine without it vibrating and resonating VERY badly. How are you getting 2400?

Anni
09-19-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

Hi Anni

I don't have much choice in the headspeed. The controller is a bit of an on-off affair in governer mode. Since I've got the recommended set up of motor, pinion and battery, I assume its designed to go at 2400 or so.
Mine is very smooth with no vibration. There is a bit of wobble that comes and goes but seems to be improving with age.

I don't really know what to suggest for yours. I assume you've done all the usual stuff with balancing the blades etc. Is your problem vibration or wobbling? If it's vibration, you've got something bent or out of balance. If it's wobbling, check how the head is assemled, particularly the damper rubbers (6073112). Are they the right way round?

Andy

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
09-19-2005 Over year old.
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

Hi Tean,

Its more of a resonant vibration which eventually starts twanging the tail control rod like a guitar string. Did you have to balance your tail rotors blades? The thing is that mine appear to be in balance but when i take them off i can spool up all the way without vibration. Put them back on and the vibration is back.

On another note my Orbit 10-14 and Jazz 40 came today so - YAY!

Anni
09-19-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

Anni
Yes, I balanced the tail blades. If it's OK without the tailblades on, it sounds like this is where your problem is.
Try sticking a piece of tape on one of the blades and see if the vibration gets worse or better. If its worse, take the tape off and stick some on the other blade. You can take the mainblades off to try this. The motor won't overspeed.
Also check the pitch angle is the same on both blades. It's very easy to thread the pitch plate onto the brass sleeve squint and this causes unequal pitch between the blades. If it's wrong you can correct it by trimming one of the ball links down.
You should be able to get it running super smooth before you refit the mainblades.
Best of luck

Andy

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
09-19-2005 Over year old.
 
 
AnnihilaT
Key Veteran
Location: The Netherlands Force: The Dark Side

Orbit 10-14 came in with the Jazz 40 ESC. Mounted them today and had a few spool-ups. Im getting 2470 RPM at 0 pitch with the 18T pinion. This is gonna be perfect i think. However, the vibration i was having has caused the tail case to fracture at the side where the bearing for the tail shaft sits. I dont know if their was already a crack there and this was the source of all my vibration or if the fracture in the tail case is a symptom of all the vibration. At any rate im grounded again until the new tail case comes. What a PITA. I still really want to see this machine working nicely tho. It just sounds so nice and smooth (if i take off the tail blades).

At least i still have my Trex's to abuse in the meantime

Cheers,
Anni
09-19-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

Depending on how bad the crack is, you might be able to do a temporrary repair by welding it with a soldering iron and a bit of scrap plastic for filler. I've found this can work very well but obviously use caution.

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
09-20-2005 Over year old.
 
 
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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Viper 70
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