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Computer Flight Simulators > Post Reflex problems here
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

SwissKurt had the idea to get a list of bugs in Reflex. I'll start out:

1. Heli models with low ground clearance and governor enabled sometimes crash at sim start. Creates confusion for a lot a folks. Workaround identified as requiring pitch to be set near 0 degrees.

2. Minimum pitch for auto-rotation cannot be set below -8. Causes pitch curves to magically re-scale when you flip into hold. For example, model with -10/10 pitch, center pitch (0 deg) and flip hold, pitch changes to 1-2 deg. in sim

3. Channel assignment and calibration window: NEED COMPLETE RE-WORK. Fails miserable on radios with throttle/pitch on same control, i.e. all Mode 2 radios with separate pitch channel. Configuring Gyro and hold create problems due to radio settings, e.g. hold usually changes throttle channel confusing Reflex. Impossible to accurately adjust max throws without major radio re-programming, i.e. disable throttle when adjusting pitch, etc.

4. Confusing V-Sync menu: most times you enable v-sync, FPS will be at the set monitor refresh and suddenly drop to 15-20 FPS ... unchecking V-Sync sometimes fixes problem.

5. Occasional problems with USB interface (black and blue). Reflex sometimes refuses to recognize interface. At times, disconneting USB from computer or (powered) hub, and reconnecting fixes problem, other times a reboot will only resolve the issue. Never have such problems with G3/G2 simulator Interlinks connected to same devices! It may be hardware conflicts, but have verified that problem still occurs when Reflex is only device on the USB (note, not connected to front ports, but on-board back ones or add-on USB2 PIC card)

6. Many problems relating to engine physics, e.g. perception of low gravity making models appear to "float" more than real aircraft.

7. Most models are too sensitive to ground contact; where a real aircraft may bend and bounce a bit, even on some rough landings, Reflex always treats pilot to a crash.

8. Inconsistent crash dynamics: sometimes a model simply stops (freezes) when it crashes while sometimes it performs a more natural roll/crunch.

9. Incompatible radio interfaces; not properly documented. Forces users to take apart cable, (re)solder resistors and swap wires in hopes of getting a connection.

10. Simultator takes over CPU even on high-powered systems. Lowering priority level of the sim relinquishes some of the CPU and sim still runs acceptably well.

11. Most stock models fly poorly or unrealistically requiring hours of parameter tweaking.

... getting tired ... will add more later on ...
09-09-2005 08:19 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Lorents
Elite Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

Hi RCFan and SwissKurt,

Here is my list of things that can be improved in Reflex. The software is great as it is, but a few improvements can make it even better

- A wizard that helps people set up their radio it would probably make life a lot easier. This wizard could even have a list of the most popular radios and suggest a mapping based on that. If the user only have a 4 channel radio it can show a text that explains that throtle is fixed in governor mode and that you only use collective to fly. If the user have a heli radio I think all the models should default so that "Transmitter mixing pitch -> throttle" is turned on.

- I think the models fly ok in reflex, but they are so unsettled in the hover. Even my indoor fixed pitch piccolo is more relaxing to hover than the raptor in reflex. When it comes to learing to fly helis it is of course better that the simulator is more demanding than the real thing...

- The VSync stuff is not very user friendly. 99% of the users have no idea what it is. I tweaked it the first time i installed Reflex and have tried to forget it after that...



What comes around goes around.
09-09-2005 10:02 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Lorents
Elite Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

Quote 
that's a different think!


I am a software developer too

Lorents



What comes around goes around.
09-09-2005 11:54 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Lorents
Elite Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

I see your point with the VSync menues, but since it is placed in the main menu it looks to me like it is something that most users need to deal with. Would probably be better to tuck it away in a "advanced settings" somewhere....

Quote 
That issue has a name: PATIENCE

How many of us have patcience when it comes to our hobby - we want stuff NOW

Anyway, reflex works great for me.



What comes around goes around.
09-09-2005 01:32 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
trvo
Veteran
Location: Bognor Regis,UK, Aurorra Ltd

Nothing wrong with Reflex in my opinion, it just takes time to configure things to 'your' liking. Regarding setting up the models...I have not flown two models of the same make that have flown the same...therefore it is not possible to accomodate everyones setup.

The only major thing I would 'like' to see in an update, is the autorotation pitch limit removed, my throttle hold on my real helis is set to -11 degrees at bottom. But again, that is just a preferance of mine...

Trev

-----
Trex 600e
Trex 600n
Aurorra Ltd, Align UK, Align Factory, CSM, Quick UK, Heli-Lessons
09-09-2005 01:52 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

SwissKurt ... you wanted a bug list ... YOU GOT IT. You're not Reflex, right? So how is it that you appear to have much "inside" information? Why don't you please stop trying to answer this with yours eyes closed. These are all bugs coming from a real Reflex customer (one that you don't particularly like because I'm brutally honest and not afraid to express my opinion even when bullied by jerks such as yourself). You are not the vendor, so SHUT THE HELL UP! If you don't have anything positive to share in this post, then stop responding. I really don't care what you have to say since I already know where you are coming from and clearly see your agenda. The post is to list bugs, not to become blind-sided by your arrogance and anger. The bugs are problems experienced while using Reflex; if Reflex is paying attention, they'll do the right thing and contact users to try to get more information followed by an OFFICIAL answer. Ignoring these issues will simply reinforce the notion that the company doesn't care for those folks that have already invested in their product or the future of the same.
09-09-2005 02:16 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

Quote 
SwissKurt wrote:
Impressive. Why don't you get another sim that would probably solve all that?


Is that the best you can do? This is precisely what I'm referring to when I indicate that you have your eyes closed! I happen to feel that Reflex IS the best sim currently on the market (same as you). However, that will not force me to ignore problems I encounter and become blind-sided by update, after update, after update that continue to ignore these. So please try to keep an open mind and stop taking other folks' opinions so personal!

Quote 
1. Heli models with low ground clearance and governor enabled sometimes crash at sim start. Creates confusion for a lot a folks. Workaround identified as requiring pitch to be set near 0 degrees.

++This is not a bug. This is the right simulation of what it does if it bounces into the gras at full negative load. Do this on the fenestrons. Why should this be a bug?


It is a bug when you consider that the crash occurs instantly when the simulation starts! How many real aircraft do you fly that go to max-rpm when you start them with radio in normal-mode and throttle at idle?

Quote 
2. Minimum pitch for auto-rotation cannot be set below -8. Causes pitch curves to magically re-scale when you flip into hold. For example, model with -10/10 pitch, center pitch (0 deg) and flip hold, pitch changes to 1-2 deg. in sim

++Pitch works in the given limit. This is not a bug, this is a feature request. Watch what you are saying. If you don't use the reflex auto but throttle cut you have all the pitch you need. Again: feature request, no bug. Reflex does exactly what is says.


The BUG is not that the pitch fails to reach the assigned limit, but that Reflex incorrectly re-SCALES the pitch curve during hold, creating a different pitch curve than wanted. Again, with linear pitch going -10 to 10, (SwissKurt FYI, this means that at mid-stick, pitch is 0 degrees ), min-auto pitch at -8 (gets worse with lesser values), mid-stick in Reflex-hold becomes shifted several degrees:
Code 
           -10deg.         0deg.           10deg

NORMAL | --------------- | --------------- |

IN AUTO | ------------- | ------------- |
-8deg 1-2deg 10deg



Quote 
3. Channel assignment and calibration window: NEED COMPLETE RE-WORK. Fails miserable on radios with throttle/pitch on same control, i.e. all Mode 2 radios with separate pitch channel. Configuring Gyro and hold create problems due to radio settings, e.g. hold usually changes throttle channel confusing Reflex. Impossible to accurately adjust max throws without major radio re-programming, i.e. disable throttle when adjusting pitch, etc.

++Your are right, it could need some rework to make it more clear. As it is today, the problem isn't the GUI but the complex structure of radio intelligence. As it is now, I can do all I want - it's complex but it's not impossible. If you don't get it, your radio programming knowledge needs some update. Again, not a bug, just a feature request.



It is broken! I can also do all I want with it since I know how it works and can get around it's quirks. However, I would rather not have to adjust radio programming to calibrate it with the software or have to explain to someone that just got the sim what a crummy radio setup system Reflex has!

Quote 
4. Confusing V-Sync menu: most times you enable v-sync, FPS will be at the set monitor refresh and suddenly drop to 15-20 FPS ... unchecking V-Sync sometimes fixes problem.

++We have to differentiate: Problems with your understanding, driver problems and Reflex problems. VSYNC doesn't depend on reflex but on your video card drivers. No bug.



Quote 
95% of the regular user never crossed with it because it works and their video card is able to run it. See the probs in here, all are solved by updating drivers and adjusting settings. In fact, Reflex doesn't do anything else a user can do going deep into his drivers. It's just a shortcut. Now try to explain to people like RCFan that it's a driver issue ...



You're correct, in most applications, VSYNC doesn't depend on the application, it's simply a switch for the gfx drivers. However, Reflex is doing something beyond setting vsync with their code, which is what may be resulting in what we're experiencing (what that is is unknown without source code or disassembling the binary, which I'm willing to undertake if necessary).

Most regular users don't have a clue on how v-sync works or that a problem may be a result of the setting being enabled! I am well-versed in driver issues (I've written and supported several drivers in the past for several device manufacturers ranging from SCSI, gfx, sound and other custom hardware across various platforms including Sun, both SPARC and Intel archs., Linux and Windoze, and developed under environments using OpenGL and DirectX).

Quote 
5. Occasional problems with USB interface (black and blue). Reflex sometimes refuses to recognize interface. At times, disconneting USB from computer or (powered) hub, and reconnecting fixes problem, other times a reboot will only resolve the issue. Never have such problems with G3/G2 simulator Interlinks connected to same devices! It may be hardware conflicts, but have verified that problem still occurs when Reflex is only device on the USB (note, not connected to front ports, but on-board back ones or add-on USB2 PIC card)

++"Occasional" I only know of one issue beeing discussed here. Are you some kind of "Robin Hood", speaking out loud for the unknown mass?



Nope, I'm simply reporting a BUG I've encountered and the symptoms surrounding it. There is no way of properly explaining this (no logs or debugging capabilities to check things against), but I'm willing to work with Reflex to try to understand this problem further.

Quote 
6. Many problems relating to engine physics, e.g. perception of low gravity making models appear to "float" more than real aircraft.

++ You were talking about "bugs". A little more precision would be needed here. I feel, that this "bug" is more understanding related. If I see it in relation to #11, I feel you really need another sim or finally learn how to fly.



This topic would require a post of its own. I'll be happy to start one and list all the issues I've encountered.

Quote 
7. Most models are too sensitive to ground contact; where a real aircraft may bend and bounce a bit, even on some rough landings, Reflex always treats pilot to a crash.

++Can't get your point. Try better landings for a change instead of claiming bugs with a very funny approach. You can set sensitivity in the physical params. Come on, they give you the chance to modify the models, why don't you use it?



Goes directly to my point in item 11, thank you.

Quote 
8. Inconsistent crash dynamics: sometimes a model simply stops (freezes) when it crashes while sometimes it performs a more natural roll/crunch.

++It resets if the crash is land based, it stops if the crash is tree based. That simple. Where is the "bug"?



The simulation is inconsistent; sometimes you see it happen on ground crashes and sometimes on scenery object hits. Granted, it's a minor bug, but I didn't try prioritizing the list in any way.

Quote 
9. Incompatible radio interfaces; not properly documented. Forces users to take apart cable, (re)solder resistors and swap wires in hopes of getting a connection.

++At least they let you change wiring without loosing warranty. That the good point. The resoldering/resistor issue was an answer to an unknown or poorly reserched signal specification. Did you know that reflex is offering 12 different adapters? If someone is to blame here, it's the radio manufacturing comminity, inventing new socket every few weeks. Did you read that Futaba 7C story here? Futaba is not even up to their own standards. Get a student cable for the 7C from you LHS and check the plug. Come back here if you can answer that question instead of blaming others.



What happens to folks that use different-brand radios, do they need to obtain separate interaces for each one? Reflex needs to be up to speed with the market on this aspect since they require customers use their own radios. Why is it that other sim manufacturers don't have these problems with their interfaces; all they need is the right cable extension for their radio, plug that to their interface and voila! Reflex has a bad reputation when it comes to radio support because of this. The developer should take a step back and re-design the whole thing as necessary.

Quote 
10. Simultator takes over CPU even on high-powered systems. Lowering priority level of the sim relinquishes some of the CPU and sim still runs acceptably well.

++Again, where is the bug? It's the programmers decision for technical reasons. Does it fail on a computer? Do you have limitations using the Reflex? Does it fail in function? Where is the bug?



Programmers make mistakes ... LOTS OF THEM. Runaway processes and loops are common mistakes in programming; sometimes poor/bad programming habits cause these problems, e.g. lack of better way of coding certain things. The bug is that the sim should only take as much as it NEEDS to perform its function. My recommendation would be to perform profiling on the Reflex code and try to reduce CPU consumption whereever possible.

Quote 
11. Most stock models fly poorly or unrealistically requiring hours of parameter tweaking.

++ commented already.



Indeed, thanks again!

Quote 
The siliconians I know are rather pale with black eye areas working real hard to provide products that stand up to users like RCFan and you can clearly see that you can never satisfy him.



That is a fact, but it's not relevant to the topic at hand. Customers are just that and can never be satisfied. They are neither right, nor wrong ... THEY ARE SIMPLY THE CUSTOMERS that help pay the vendor's bills.

Quote 
By the way, I don't believe he ever paid something for the updates so he is nagging on things he took for free anyway.


I own two copies of Reflex. It's Reflex's own policy to distribute updates for free and encourage customers to support their development effort as WE see fit, based on the improvements obtained. You have no right to question my integrity since it's their policy; if you don't like it, that's tough. I'm sure if Reflex considered their policy was wrong they would go immediately back on their word and start charging for updates.
09-09-2005 04:18 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MJA
Key Veteran
Location: Cumbria-UK

Swiss Tony,
Regarding the Reflex USB thing/bug "radio not detected" .I only get the problem intermittantly with Reflex,yet AeroflyProdeluxe and
Realflight G3 work first time everytime on the same computer
I have checked the DIN socket and Reflex leads more than once
Can you explain this problem away for me too please because you seem to make a very good job of explaining all the other Reflex problems away
09-09-2005 05:57 PM
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

Lets try to avoid using the topic to troubleshoot the issue and stick to just listing/explaining/describing any bugs/issues you have.

SwissKurt, you obviously are one of the lucky few without any Reflex problems, so I please ask you to stop posting here unless you are going to post bugs. The intent with this was to LIST problems people are having, nothing more.

BTW, I emailed Reflex over 10 months ago regarding a lot of these problems. Never received a response. Sorry!
09-09-2005 06:35 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

SwissKurt
Quote 
"so I please ask you to stop posting here unless you are going to post bugs"
Wow - freedom of speach is valid for you only. You have the freedom of posting unqualified stuff but I don't have the freedom to answer? What do you do, send US troops to occupy Switzerland?



I'm not preventing your from posting in some other topic. In fact, I ASKED you to please stop your BS in this particular one. Funny how you tend to MISINTERPRET simple statements (and comments).

Quote 
Meanwhile I got a funny mail from wolfgang. It seems you were nagging on him some time ago and he found a communication about 5 mails going back and forth about rather similar subjects. You wern't understanding at that time as you don't understand now. It seems that you don't understand that the Reflex people are not your personal playground to do what you like.



Well, please open a separate thread and post these email here won't ya!!!!! I'd love to see an email thread on this specially when I never received a single response from Reflex on the bug reports. BRING IT ON.
09-09-2005 07:53 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

Quote 
Waste of time and effort. Obviously you didn't listen at that time as you don't now, so who cares? I spend my time with more funny things. Have fun with your "thread". I prepare for your invasion troops.



I knew you're full of crap ... just like all your other BS on this forum. LOSER!
09-09-2005 08:05 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
w.pasman
Elite Veteran
Location: Netherlands

It might be an idea to reformulate it to "issue list", to avoid discussions about who exactly is to blame. "bug list" sounds like Reflex is the one and only source of an issue, while about everything, even a fridge turning on at the neighbours while you are running reflex, may be the cause of an issue.

Maybe it's an idea to add links to relevant threads discussing each of the issues.

BTW maybe you can discuss the relevantness of this thread offline and clean up your posts .... it's creating a bad smell in this thread
09-09-2005 08:30 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

Quote 
"I knew you're full of crap ... just like all your other BS on this forum. LOSER!"

Could someone please translate this for me? What is a BS and what is a LOSER?


Webster:
Main Entry: los·er
Pronunciation: 'lü-z&r
Function: noun
1 : one that loses especially consistently
2 : one who is incompetent or unable to succeed; also : something doomed to fail or disappoint
3 : See also: SwissKurt

09-09-2005 08:57 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

Main Entry: 1bull·****
Pronunciation: 'bul-"**** also 'b&l-
Function: noun
Etymology: 1bull & 6bull
usually vulgar : NONSENSE; especially : foolish insolent talk

Main Entry: 2bull****
Function: verb
intransitive senses
1 usually vulgar : to talk foolishly, boastfully, or idly
2 usually vulgar : to engage in a discursive discussion
transitive senses, usually vulgar : to talk nonsense to especially with the intention of deceiving or misleading

SwissKurt,

Look man, what the hell have I done to you to deserve your wrath? Expressing my opinion and commenting on problems that I've encountered while using the best sim I can possibly get in this market should not demand such brutal retribution from you or anyone else!

I don't expect you to solve or even answer any of these comments, but I can find no other method of presenting this information in a place that I know the vendor (stealthily) frequents. A lot of the problems I've found are not that complicated to correct, and while some have feasible workarounds, it still would be nice to eventually see them fixed in an update. For example, the "running time" bug while running a model with pitch->throttle mixing enabled (model would fly forever) was finally fixed in 5.02.0, although not listed in the release notes. I can recall that bug from as far back as 4.03!! Sure it wasn't a critical thing and it could have gone unfixed, but when you add this bug, and "that" problem with "other" issues, generically speaking, you end up sometimes questioning the overall application.

I don't know where you come from and what compels you or drives you to become irate when someone exposes problems while running this sim. I concur that some (a lot of) problems are user-created, e.g. latest drivers not installed, but that should be no excuse to ignore the potential for legitimate issues existing in Reflex. I know very well you know, based on your posts and background in software developement, that it's impossible to create a bug-free application and that updates usually tend to bring out more problems than those they were trying to correct in the first place. This is why sometimes it surprises me when you immediately dismiss a trouble report. Take the time to listen to the person making the post; take a step back and consider the possibility that the software MAY be misbehaving and you don't have accurate knowledge of its internal operation, but rather a notion of how things should work under similar environments.

Anyway, sorry for my diatribe, but this is really not helping either of us or getting the right information back to the folks that can really make a difference within Reflex.
09-09-2005 09:36 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

Quote 
1. Heli models with low ground clearance and governor enabled sometimes crash at sim start. Creates confusion for a lot a folks. Workaround identified as requiring pitch to be set near 0 degrees.


I've actually been trying (before I gave up) to find a remedy to this. The way I see it (unless I'm missing something). I'm unable to use a governor if I want use my own pitch & throttle curves?

Is there a way I can use a governor with my TX curves and have the sim open at idle??

Raz
09-09-2005 09:42 PM
 
 
RCfan
Key Veteran
Location: Longwood, FL USA

Razmo, yes you can if you're radio allows customizing your throttle curve.

Enable both governor and pitch->throttle mixing. Now go into your radio and for each condition set the throttle curves to give you the RPM you want the governor to sustain. For your normal condition, set it up so the throttle starts at idle (low stick) and slowly increases. at the point where it reaches the desired RPM, keep the throttle constant (i.e. curve turns into a horizontal line). For you're idle-ups, you should setup a horizontal line at the throttle position that give the proper RPM for each condition. Hope this makes sense. Note that when you setup your radio in this fashion, you can still use it with models that don't have pitch->throttle mixing on, but the governor RPM will be set as found in the parameter screen.

See pics from my setup (14MZ):
Normal condition:


Idle-up 1:
09-09-2005 09:49 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MJA
Key Veteran
Location: Cumbria-UK

<<@Footaba: "Regarding the Reflex USB thing/bug "radio not detected"" - AFPD and G3 are joysticks, Reflex is reading PPM signals>>


1.The version of AFPD i have connects directly to my own radio with a USB lead at the PC end.

2. I've known about the Futaba DIN connection for a very long time now & it's one of the first things i check ,i give the flat bit of metal that contacts the can a good tweak outwards,it's the same socket in the radio that always works ok with AFPD and the dint in the can on the Reflex plug looks good too
I also check the phono joint too whenever it happens.
I can then switch to the AFPD plug and AFPD starts and detects the radio immediately

Seems more prone to do it when my USB ADSL modem is connected
to my ISP before i start Reflex
,so could Reflex be trying to be a USB bus resource hog as well as a CPU hog?
09-09-2005 10:05 PM
 
 
Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

For some reason I thought I tried adjusting the throttle curve to gain idle speed at the opening screen with governor mode enabled? I'll give it another try, Thanks!

Raz
09-09-2005 10:10 PM
 
 
Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

I appreciate the screen shots RCfan. I also have to thank SwissKurt for help elsewhere. So make friends guys

Raz
09-09-2005 10:14 PM
 
 
Razmo
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago

RCFan,

Those are acually both look like shots of normal mode??? No?

Raz
09-09-2005 10:22 PM
 
 
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