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Main Discussion > Challenge for FF9 Super programmers!

jurgen
Senior Heliman
Location: Weybridge, Surrey, UK

.Edit: I think I've cracked this, solution towards bottom of 1st page.

Ok, so I've got your attention! Here's what I want to do:

I have a FF9 super TX and a newly aquired RevLock. I currently use the FF9's governor function to control the RevLock and have it assigned to the same switch as the Idle Up switch (so that the RevLock and Idle Up change at the same time). I would like to be able to assign another switch to disable the RevLock totally (this would be done by putting the remote channel to "center" as the Revlock has about a 10% deadband where it is deactivated).

Before you all say it, I KNOW that the Revlock can be disabled at start-up by pressing the button on it but I want to be able to control it from my TX so that I can disable/enable it mid-flight without having to land and switch off and on again etc.

I have tried to use one of the spare programmable mixes and programmed in an Offset (OFST) to the remote channel, the problem with this approach is that it only works for one of the Idle Up modes (as soon as I change flying mode the offset required changes and so the mix requirement changes). I was just wondering if there was some 'clever' way around this that I'm not aware of??

Thanks for any replies!

Jurgen

08-15-2005 Over year old.

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webbhost
Key Veteran
Location: england - Leicester

get a mini servo to press the button on a spare channel

lol

meh

08-15-2005 Over year old.

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jurgen
Senior Heliman
Location: Weybridge, Surrey, UK

Not a bad idea except I wouldn't be able to turn it back on again!

I 'could' program a PIC to do the right mixing but that would be a lot of effort (especially if there is a way of doing it!)

J.

08-15-2005 Over year old.

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webbhost
Key Veteran
Location: england - Leicester

more mini servo's on the other buttons

lol

meh

08-15-2005 Over year old.

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Dr.Phil
Senior Heliman
Location: Oslo, Norway

Hmm.. I'm interested in the same thing.
Have been flying like this for a while.
I also have set the revlock to work with idle up, and each time I want to fly without a gov I have to push the button..

Philip
Raptor 50V2
Raptor 90Std.
TT mini Titan E325
www.airheads.no

08-15-2005 Over year old.

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sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

This does not address your questions directly but I have my Governors on the FF9 three way switch "C". Low is off, mid is 1600, hi is 1750 headspeed. This works independently from the idle-up switches so in any idle up mode, I can use or not use the Governor.

08-15-2005 Over year old.

jurgen
Senior Heliman
Location: Weybridge, Surrey, UK

Sharam, that's close! What about a way to 'link' and 'unlink' switches? Is that possible? So have it linked to Idle-Up and then flick another switch to have it set on switch C?

08-15-2005 Over year old.

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webbhost
Key Veteran
Location: england - Leicester

i think you may be hoping for a little too much out off your controller there

kinda getting very close the the boundries of rc controllers now

meh

08-15-2005 Over year old.

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JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

Someone has suggested using a mix which is a multi-point curve. Your on/off switch would turn the mix on and off. The points of the curve would be used to make the aux channel output be within the "inhibit" window of the RevLock. If you change your governor menu values you would have to tweak the curve a little, but once set it would be good to go. Please see: http://runryder.com/helicopter/t175521p1/

What if you use a regular mix (i.e., not offset) and select the aux channel for both the input and output. Then, set its value to something like -100% so that whatever value comes is effectively cancelled by the mix and the output is then a neutral value.

Disclaimer: I do not have a 9CS to test these on.

- John

08-15-2005 Over year old.

sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

jurgen_r30

i don't think you can link them.

After I set the heli down and spool up, I flick switch C to the mid level and now I have my 1600 headspeed. Then I take off and in flight switch to idle 1 or idle 2. After a few circuits I flip switch C to the top level for a 1750 headspeed and continue in idle 1 or 2. Actually I always keep it in idle 2 mostly.

08-15-2005 Over year old.

jurgen
Senior Heliman
Location: Weybridge, Surrey, UK

Thanks JKos, looks like I should have done a better search before posting the question!

I tried the suggestion in the other post by using the programmable curve and setting the master as Aux 7 and the slave as Aux 7. For a moment I thought it was working but then realised it only adds the first 'offset' point no matter what position the Idle Up switch is in?

What does the link function do?

Sharam: I still think you may have the optimal solution as far as this goes! I'm just worried that I would forget to switch one of the switches at some point leading to some sort of catastrophe!

J.

08-15-2005 Over year old.

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JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

jurgen_r30,
If Aux 7 is changing (i.e. when you change flight modes), then that change should be shown on the graph. You would then be able to see which point to adjust to effectively cancel out the input.

Is "Flight Cond" a selectable input for the mix? Or how about "Gov" instead of Aux 7?

- John

08-15-2005 Over year old.

Mike H
Senior Heliman
Location: Fraserburgh - Scotland

Is this what your looking for?

As a test I've set up channel 7 (AUX1) on three position Switch C.

Then set up programmable mix 1 as follows. On the FF9, (not super), but it must be same?

MAS>AUX1
SLV>AUX1
LINK>OFF
SW>B
POSI>DOWN

Low rate -100%
High rate -100%
Offset 0%

When switch B is down, the AUX channel remains centred no matter what switch C does. I don't have a revlock, but I'm assuming that its an Aux channel that you do the setpoint select with?

Or have I misunderstood what you want

Mike
Team QuickUK

08-15-2005 Over year old.

sharam
Elite Veteran
Location: Northern California

jurgen_r30

I have pretty decent throttle curves backing up my governor in the event that the governor fails.

If I go through the permutations of the various switch positions, I can't think of one which could be catastrophic - let's assume that you have good throttle curves as backup in all flight modes.

When I started doing it this way, on occassion I would land in Idle 2. This would result in full negative pitch, 1750 headspeed, and the heli pushing mother earth the other way!! That was the worst thing that ever happened to me following this scenario.

08-16-2005 Over year old.

Tomas Ahl
Senior Heliman
Location: Linköping, Sweden

In a PM to Jurgen I confirmed what he has seen. I.e. that if you use SW E - the switch directly, not the flight condition - as controller of the governor speed the canceling mixer (as I describe in the other thread JKos points to) seems to only use the lowest mixer point regardless of SW E position.

---

Mike, in a quick test I don't get the same results as you describe. For me the AUX1 channel is not constant when the mixer is activated. Maybe I'm doing something wrong that I can't spot right now.

---

EDIT: Sorry, this doesn't solve the same problem.

Since my PM to Jurgen I have started to think about what might be another way of solving the problem. Stop trying to cancel the governor control channel and instead cancel any throttle channel output.

Set up a linear mix the same way Mike described it but with both master and slave being the throttle channel:

MAS>THRO
SLV>THRO
LINK>OFF
SW>B
POSI>DOWN
Low rate -100%
High rate -100%
Offset 0%

When I try this on my CS viewing the resulting channel action on the SERVO display it seems to work when the throttle trim has reasonable settings not to far from center position. With the throttle trim at the extreme low the mix may not be enough to disable the TJ if the throttle channel's output before mixing is near full throttle.With the throttle trim at the extreme high combined with full or near full throttle the resulting output will probably firmly overdrive the throttle servo in the throttle closing direction.

If you set up your heli to only nudge the throttle trim away from center to slightly vary engine idling this might work for you.

08-16-2005 Over year old.

JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

Tomas,
I don't think that will accomplish the intended goal. It will put the throttle to idle, not disable the RevLock while passing on the throttle curve.

- John

08-16-2005 Over year old.

jurgen
Senior Heliman
Location: Weybridge, Surrey, UK

I got it right!

I think Futaba GOOFED slightly on this one!

I got it right but it requires a sacrifice! If you move the Idle Up switch assignment to Sw C (not sure if you can do this if the TX is not a Super?) AND the governor control switch to SW C then you can use the programmable curve to nullify any offset as described above! So the sacrifice is that you would have to use Sw C as the flight condition switch....

So as a summary: I have Switch C controlling the flight condition AND the governor headspeed. Then I use Switch D to turn on/off the programmable curve which has AUX 1 as the master and slave. Then use points 1, 3 and 5 on that curve to cancel the governor offsets! From what I see on the servo test screen it works like a charm!

So why have Futaba goofed like this? Why does it work on Switch C and not on Switch E?? Should we write to them to get software upgrades?

08-16-2005 Over year old.

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jurgen
Senior Heliman
Location: Weybridge, Surrey, UK

Maybe, and this is only maybe, it has something to do with the version of TX? I mean maybe it has to do with whether the TX is a 9CAP or a 9CHP because as far as I could see the only difference with the radios is the default assignment of switch C and E? Here in the UK we only get one version of the radio (and it's the aero version as far as I can tell) and maybe that's why it won't work?

Maybe someone over the pond can test this theory using a proper heli version FF9?

08-16-2005 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Tomas Ahl
Senior Heliman
Location: Linköping, Sweden

Of course you are right John. I edited my post to point this out.

Sorry, it was at 2 AM here in Sweden when I dreamt it up...

---

Jurgen,

My transmitter is a 9CHP Super so I don't think this is a version issue.

Another small note. I have seen on my 9CS that switching into throttle-hold will force one of channel 7 or 8 to its -100% output. Which channel depends on what you have "CUT-CH" set to on page two of the GOVERNOR menu. I don't think this is any problem unless you program your 9CS to use delay on the throttle channel. Delay causes the channel to smoothly ramp between positions when changing flight condition and on the Super you can do this on the throttle channel too. If you use delay on the throttle channel the throttle servo control will be rather erratic when switching into throttle-hold because the channel 7 outputting -100% will instantly be telling the TJ to send the throttle to full bore but then in a few tens of a second the throttle channel ramping will catch up with sending the channel below the 25% and that will disable the TJ finally idling the engine. If you’re not using channel 8 for anything of course setting "CUT-CH" to “CH 8” will cure this, otherwise you probably don’t want delay on your throttle channel.

I use 30% delay on my throttle channels as I think this gives nice ramping characteristics and when switching into throttle-hold the engines definitely "roar" before going to idle unless I reassign "CUT-CH". And on one ship I do want to use channel 8 for other stuff.

08-16-2005 Over year old.

jurgen
Senior Heliman
Location: Weybridge, Surrey, UK

I got it, I got it, I got it!!!!

I think I just figured it out! Futaba didn't goof after all! So here's how I did it:

1) Go to Basic heli, page 2/2, AUX-CH settings. Change the CH7 switch assignment to Sw-E.

2) Go to Advance Heli, page 2/2, SW SELECT settings. Make sure that the IDL1/2 is set for E.

3) Go to GOVERNOR menu on same page and set SW to E. (And set up your RevLock as normal)

4) Go to PMX-6 CRV on the same page. Go to the second page and set the following:

MAS> 7:AUX1
SLV> 7:AUX1
LINK> OFF
SW> D (or whatever switch you want)
POSI> DOWN (or again, as you prefer)

5) Now to dial in the values needed! (Only points 1, 3 and 5 are needed). The value is (50 - GV) * 2 where GV is the value programmed under the governor menu. For example my Idle Up 2 governor value is 72, so from the formula I get (50 - 72) * 2 which is -44, so point 5 on the curve becomes -44!

That's it! Now when you hit Switch D the RevLock is disabled and yet the Revlock is still controlled from the same switch as the Idle Up switch!

I still have to test fly this but from the servo test screen and from what the RevLock tells me on a bench test this works!!!

Cheers guys,

Jurgen.

08-16-2005 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

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