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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Eco 8 Shearing off Head Bolt
 
 
joes66GT
Heliman
Location: Oconomowoc,WI

Hi
I have an Eco 8 with a Hacker B50-14L motor running a 16 tooth pinion with 10 cell pack CC Phoenix-60 ESC Aluminum Head, Swashplate, Carbon Fiber MS blades main and tail, CF frame, Boom and Fins. I have the ESC set to super slow start. The problem I am having is the head bolt has sheared off twice with only a couple of dozen of runs on this heli. The first bolt was the stock bolt the second one was a stainless steel one from FZaeromodels that is a substitute. Can anyone help me with this problem?
The other concern I have is that I am waiting for TP 4s3p-6000 packs to come in to increase my head speed, which will probably put more load on the head.
I have a pretty much stock Eco 8 with a Mega 22/20/3H motor, stock blades CC Phoenix 45, 16-tooth pinion, 8 cell and has never sheared one. The new Eco's weight is almost 7 oz. heavier than the stock. I'm looking to go 3D with the Eco. Big time concern with this problem.
07-23-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Rob_T
Elite Veteran
Location: Tualatin, OR - USA

I think the toughest bolts are hardened with black oxide finish, I dont think stainless is as strong. (But I'm no metallurgist.)

I would think vibration in the head might weaken the bolt, so it might be worth double checking the balance of the blades and flybar etc and checking all shafts are straight.


Rob
Eco8, Piccolo Fun, Shogun, HB Elite CP, Trex 450XL CDE, Swift
07-24-2005 Over year old.
 
 
atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

Hi

if you have tightened the bolts too tight it will weaken the bolt as it puts too much tension onto the bolt try just tightening them till it touches the end point slightly you dont need to overtighten them.

mine just to say touch the end point.

also mine bends just on the stock motor and and esc i just replace it every half a dozen flights or so better safe than sorry.

dont know if this is the problem but its worth a try.

i hope your on about the bolt that holds the rotor head on else i have got the rong end of the stick.






atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
07-24-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Brett Sumpter
Heliman
Location: Roswell, GA

How soft is your startup? Depending on which firmware is installed the CC45 can give a nasty kick initially, it's the fastest way I know to lose the head bolt other than not having an autorotation gear (which I assume you have given the other mods).

If you've got a PHX-Link, try different firmware versions as some are better than others - or just give the blades a spin by hand before starting the motor.
07-24-2005 Over year old.
 
 
joes66GT
Heliman
Location: Oconomowoc,WI

Hi Guys
I'm going to try to reply to the 3 posts that have been sent.

RobT=As far as which bolts are stronger, I thought I would give the stainless a try thinking that they might be better seeing that FXaeromodles went to them as a substitute. But in doing some research this morning trying to find bolts through McMaster Carr I found that the stainless were available in 16mm long and not the steel ones, that's probably why they handle them. I did also find that you can get spring pins. a split type and a roll type, the roll type have a very good shear rate and they have the same stainless steel bolts that FX has, for $10.00 for 50 of them rather than $2.00 for 2 of them at FX. If this is a weak spot and you have to change them often it might be a good alternative source. If you know where you can get 16mm black socket head bolts let me know. As far as balance, my blades are balanced and I did replace the feather shaft, main shaft and fly bar after the first bolt broke and jammed the head. I do need to check the tail blades. I have an Eco 16 landing gear to get me up higher so I can land in taller grass and I am showing a slight vibration on the landing gear.

ATB=When the first bolt broke I did think that I could have tightened it too much causing it to be weakened and broke but when I installed the second one I'm using 2mm nylock nut and I made sure that I did not over tighten it, tightening it just until it touched the head.

Brett Sumpter=I am using a cc60 and as far as my startup I have it set for "softest". I downloaded the latest firmware available, that doesn't mean that an earlier version might not be better, so I could try that. And yes, I do have an auto rotation gear. After posting this, I do remember reading about this problem and now I have since wound up my head on initial start up and you don't see the slight glitching of the tail blades on the start up.

Thanks to everyone for your response, I do appreciate it.
07-24-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Rob_T
Elite Veteran
Location: Tualatin, OR - USA

I found some 2mm black finished steel cap head bolts at my LHS - I've been using those since I sheared the one that came in the kit.


Rob
Eco8, Piccolo Fun, Shogun, HB Elite CP, Trex 450XL CDE, Swift
07-25-2005 Over year old.
 
 
TMorita
Senior Heliman
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Don't use a Phoenix on a heli. The soft start has never worked properly on them.

Use a Schulze or a Kontronik instead.

Toshi
07-28-2005 Over year old.
 
 
joes66GT
Heliman
Location: Oconomowoc,WI

Hi
I do have a Schulze 45-He but I went to the Phoenix 60 because the Schulze wouldn't handle the 4s3p Packs. I flew the heli twice with a 10 cell pack and the Schulze and wanted a higher head speed so I but in the Phoenix. I'm selling the Schulze if anyone is interested, only used for two flights. I'm spinning the head by hand on start up and so far so good.
07-28-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Rob_T
Elite Veteran
Location: Tualatin, OR - USA

I have the CC45 on my Eco (also 22/20/3H motor). I have noticed that the softstart is much softer in govenor mode than normal mode. In normal mode you do have to manage the throttle to avoid gear damage (even in soft start mode), but with govenor mode there is no such problem.


Rob
Eco8, Piccolo Fun, Shogun, HB Elite CP, Trex 450XL CDE, Swift
07-28-2005 Over year old.
 
 
joes66GT
Heliman
Location: Oconomowoc,WI

Hi Rob T
On my Eco 8 that has CC45 and the 22/20/3H motor I am running it in the governor mode and on 8 cell packs and I haven’t had any problem with that Heli and shearing the head bolts. The problem is with the blinged out Eco that I have built. By the way I have found some 2mm socket head screws (grade 8) at a local fastener company, and doing some checking with the machine shop at work the black screws (grade 8) are harder then the Stainless steel.
You had wrote about vibration in the head and it got me thinking more about this being a cause of the screws shearing. I have balanced the blades and rechecked them. What is weird is I will fly the heli one time and there will be no apparent vibration and the next time I will see a little on the landing gear. I have checked everything and everything seems to be tight. When I was building the heli I noticed the bearing in the center of the swash plate didn't fit tight it wasn't a press fit. I haven’t seen it move or lift but in the back of my mind I wonder if it could be a contributing factor. Do you or anyone else have any other ideas about what could be causing the intermittent vibration assuming the swash plate isn't the problem?
07-28-2005 Over year old.
 
 
joes66GT
Heliman
Location: Oconomowoc,WI

I believe the problem with the shearing of the head bolt was the belt was to loose and the belt teeth were locking together on start up from the belt flexing or slapping together and locking. A friend of mine along with myself have just built Eco's and the new belts when we received them have kinks in them inherently from being in the package. My friend was turning over he's head on he's heli by hand and the belt lock together. So I tightened the belt and I haven't had a bolt shear since.
08-07-2005 Over year old.
 
 
atb
Senior Heliman
Location: England

im glad you have sorted it out.

good luck with your flying.



atb

I lost 215 pounds on the eco diet in just 3 stick movements.
08-07-2005 Over year old.
 
 
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e-Ikarus Piccolo-Eco 8/16 > Eco 8 Shearing off Head Bolt
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