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Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC . Mikado Modellhubschrauber

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e-E-Flite Blade CP mCX CX 400-3D > Horizon Hobby Blade CP Sticking Collective Problem Resolved For Free!! :)
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

A number of Blade CP pilots have reported a sticking collective problem that manifests itself in the following manner.........Getting ready for take off, advancing the throttle, but no response from the heli other than an ever increasing head speed, and then suddenly with no warning the heli rips off toward the treetops like a sidewinder missile. Scary to say the least and disastrous if you are flying indoors.

A number of posts have suggested that the problem was in the head slider binding and needing sanding and/or lubrication. This did no good for me, so I tore the little heli's head down and believe that I have isolated the problem.
The main blade grips have two ball bearings each. These bearings must have their outer races touching only the inside surface of the blade grip bearing cavity to be effective. It seems that the assembly point has been loading the parts intended to contact only the inner race of the ball bearings in the wrong order.
Once you have the blade grips removed from the spindle shaft, you will see that an aluminum spacer is installed next to the bearing and is making contact with the outer race of the outside grip bearing. This prevents free rotation of the grip on this bearing and I believe is causing the "sticking collective anomaly". As received there is an M2 washer mounted directly under the M2 retaining bolt. This is smaller in O.D., than the spacer and needs to be in position next to the bearing. It only makes contact with the inner bearing race and everything operates freely when installed in this fashion.

All that needs to be done is to swap the location of the aluminum spacer and the M2 washer outside the grip on the M2 securing bolt. I have several flights on all three of my Blades and have not experienced the "sticking collective" issue on any of them since reordering the parts.

If you understand what is going on here then as the rpm increases and the centrifugal force exerted by the rotor blades pulls the parts discussed here even tighter together, the binding holds the blades at the beginning pitch until enough servo power overcomes the problem and suddenly slams the head into maximum positve pitch and off you go.

If my words are not clear, I have enclosed some pics to aid understanding. This information has been sent to Horizon Hobby.











Cheers - Boyd
AMA80393
IRCHA 3355
Major USAF
Retired
06-15-2005 03:59 PM
 
 
SkidBreaker
Heliman
Location: Asheville, NC

WOW...haven't tried it yet but will in a few minutes....thanks in advance Sir! I've sanded / lubed / sanded some more / lubed etc the head which is slick as a whistle now but have still had the problem. It's cost me at least 3 sets of blades and a canopy. I'd sure like some response from Jason at Horizon as to whether or not they might acknowledge the issue and reimburse / replace the parts this has cost me, and many others I'm sure.

I'll try the fix and post again this afternoon.
06-15-2005 05:23 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
SkidBreaker
Heliman
Location: Asheville, NC

Just tried it....perfect fix for the problem! If you have a Blade do this before you fly again!! Thanks so much for the help Boyd!!!
06-15-2005 05:52 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Hoverup
Elite Veteran
Location: Gulf Coast

Good news!!

Cheers - Boyd
AMA80393
IRCHA 3355
Major USAF
Retired
06-15-2005 06:07 PM
 
 
midwestpilot
Elite Veteran
Location: Crystal Lake, IL

great tip...

I love it when great info gets posted on here....

In life there is no spacebar!

Rich Erikson AMA 6175
06-15-2005 07:01 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

yup!

This would explain why the paddles are tight and don't "bounce" like my GWS when I tap them. My BCP did not exibit this issue, but another one I flew did. Good thing I had read the threads here and was expecting it. I was 'bumping' the throttle up, and suddenly I had a BCP in my face. I was able to 'catch it' and land it, but scarry!

Horizon Hobbies should help out here, I hope.

...yep...
06-15-2005 09:32 PM
 
 
BunnMan
Heliman
Location: Pasadena, Maryland

interesting work my friend

I just tried your idea and boy what a noticeable difference even at my low level of performance. I am just learning to fly helis and the Blade was my choice of trainer. My usual drill is hovering in the living room due to the amount of trouble I have trying to fly outdoors with that evil wind! After performing your steps I noticed an immediate difference in the amount of throttle/collective it took to lift off the carpet. Before I was up at almost full throw with the trim at the bottom to lift off. Now it feels like I am at maybe half before in lifts up and the head speed is much slower. I had to tweak my proportional a bit to work with the free-ed up collective but I like it much more now. Also no abrupt tail twitches like I used to get every now and then. All blade owners should take a look at their heli, I bet they all have the setup you show in the third photo there. I checked my manual and on the assembly drawing on page 25 it clearly shows the grips put together the "bad" way.

Thanks and God bless,

-BunnMan
06-15-2005 10:46 PM
 
 
allns47
Key Veteran
Location: Richmond IN.

I guess horizon missed this problem....
06-15-2005 11:41 PM
 
 
altnaut50
Heliman
Location: Pensacola, Fl

Thanks, that corrected the problem. This chopper flys now Maybe you can find an answer to the tail motors burning out. DD may be the answer. Bill
06-16-2005 02:47 AM
 
 
SkidBreaker
Heliman
Location: Asheville, NC

Don't want to hijak this thread so maybe a new one is in order......concerning conversion to DD for this little bird? I'm just a noob that can't stand "not" tweaking / modifying / improving. Anyone have any links to more info or have experience doing this??
06-16-2005 03:23 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
mikemisty
Heliman
Location: Whitsett N.C Gilford Co

Thanks for the info Boyd ...Great post im sure you just saved alot of Rotor blades and Blade CP's ... Just wanted to say thanks looks like you put alot of work in this post . I changed mine also after reading your post made a big diffrence .
06-16-2005 05:08 AM
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Thanks for sharing this!

Be aware that if you dissassemble the spindle, the two washers that go next to the o-ring damener have a shoulder on them. The shoulder goes towards the blade holder bearing and away from the o-Ring dampener. It's shown as part 015 on the exploded diagam in the manual.

---
Rich
06-17-2005 10:40 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
BunnMan
Heliman
Location: Pasadena, Maryland

it aint a perfect world

I wonder how much a Schluter in this class would cost?

I feel your pain but then I wouldn't go and get so upset over it. All things considered this is a wonderful machine for the investment. Being a brand new product offered at such an affordable buy in it's hard to expect perfection. Thankfully their support is phonemenal which is sadly VERY hard to come by anymore. Besides, it really isn't a QC issue as much as it's an engineering issue. The included assembly drawing actually shows the grips put together the WRONG way. True, a more effective QC program would have caught it before it hit the market, but this one is not the fault of the laborers/assemblers making a goof when putting togther the last few models before close of business friday. This one comes straight out of the front office and effects them ALL. I'm sure you'll see a change in future models as soon as this issue hits 'em back home. I just shared it with the LHS folks and they were very happy to have the fix. Thank God there's folks around sharp enough to pick up on stuff like this and share it with the rest of us. Thanks again Boyd!

I am new to Helis and this forum as I've mentioned before. I have really enjoyed reviewing the info here and am appreciative of all the folks who contirbute. Being involved in a few hobbies/obsessions I visit a variey of forums and newsgroups on the web and the folks that participate here seem to be a real high caliber bunch. No nonsense, stupid spew responses and no angry, frustrated flames...except for one user. I know everybody has their share of problems and I'll be praying for you and yours.

God bless,

-BunnMan
06-18-2005 01:48 PM
 
 
skyboy-8
Heliman
Location: Marietta, GA

BTW, I have the newest version of Esky Honey bee CP. Great heli, however, the sticking collective is there also!
06-19-2005 12:40 AM
 
 
BunnMan
Heliman
Location: Pasadena, Maryland

Honey Bee2

I have seen pictures of the Honey Bee2 and believe it is essentially the same heli. I have also read that alot of the parts are interchangeable, They aren't identical however do seem very close. I did notice the rotor head is slightly different but how different I don't know. It would be cool to see the two lined up next to each other. The fix for the collective is probably the same.

God bless,

-BunnMan
06-19-2005 02:35 AM
 
 
skyboy-8
Heliman
Location: Marietta, GA

The Blade is the same as the previous version of the Esky HB. If you compare those parts with Blades, you'll find that they are the same...

I will certainly look to do this fix on my HB, thanks!
06-19-2005 04:00 AM
 
 
SkidBreaker
Heliman
Location: Asheville, NC

Quote 
This Asian crap really has me disgusted, it's really OBVIOUS to me without even reading the text that's a really asanine QC issue.


Man, I really tried to bite my tongue on this one. I'm not Asian, but I find your comment offensive. "This Asian crap..." as if anything made in Asia is inferior, and since it's made by Asians then they must all be inferior as well. Believe me when I say I spend my dollars locally on US made goods whenever possible, but in fact, we are living in a World economy. I can't imagine a company with better customer support, which I've utilized multiple times, than Horizon. I guarantee you they'll fix this before any more are shipped to dealers. I was on the phone with their service department within an hour of this being originally posted. How many people do you think might be introduced to R/C helis by a $220 RTF package that sets a new level for RTF micros? A lot, as is already evident in the major forums. Would they jump in if the package was $520.....I think not.

With all "due" respect, you might think about your comments, especially racial slurs, before posting them. And it's "asinine", not asanine.

Now, let's have a beer and talk about crashin' helis!
06-19-2005 04:28 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

two of my fixes

as I posted on another site:
"
I have some more info to add to the sticky collective issue. My BCP was an early production run which did not include any washers outside of the blade holder bearing. I went to the LHS and picked up a pack of Dubro 2mm washers (part# 2107). They are PERFECT for this application. The head is so smooth it's truly amazing.
Also, I found that the plastic ball/socket joints in the head were too tight. I added some dry graphite lube, but that didn't help much. A Piccolo pilot gave me a hint about using a pair of needle nose pliers to squeeze the ball/socket to loosen them up. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The whole head is so smooth, the flybar paddles now bounce when I tap them!

Summary:
1. Dubro 2107 2mm washer for the blade holder
2. "Massage" the head's ball joints with a pair of pliers to loosen them up

I've been flying with the acro kits main motor, heat sinks installed and a TP 3120 Lipo cell. Great combo, but be aware, I didn't experience the sticking head problem until I went to the lipo battery. The higher head speed will show issues that the 9.6V pack didn't!
"

...yep...
06-19-2005 04:53 AM
 
 
SkidBreaker
Heliman
Location: Asheville, NC

Roger that NY

...or when our lower income mother's can't find a job to feed their kids or pay for health care because the low paying jobs have all been taken by illegal immigrants, who are also using the public health care system. We just have to remember that when we point a finger at someone else three more are pointed back at us. Is it their fault or is it ours for not doing more to stop it?

Ok ok....enough politics. Let's have some coffee and get ready to go fly!
06-19-2005 12:38 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
deafheliflyer
Veteran
Location: Arizona

Hi

If anyone does this conversion.. Keep in mind you may have to put two or three small washers after putting in the O-Ring... For some reason after taking the O ring out and putting it back in, there is A LOT of free-play ... So, put washers in so that the head will be tight not wobbly.


just my $.02
06-19-2005 09:36 PM
 
 
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e-E-Flite Blade CP mCX CX 400-3D > Horizon Hobby Blade CP Sticking Collective Problem Resolved For Free!! :)
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