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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > Falcon 50 SEv2 Building Review.

jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Okay, I just got my Falcon SE v2 in the mail today! Ordered it from Ricks and it arrived in record time. I also got a Muscle Pipe Set. I know I ordered the Left/Hand set, but somehow ended up with the Right/Hand set. I will have to e-mail Rick's tonight to see if he can get me a Left Header as that's the only thing different.

I'm not going to have any pictures unfortunately as I'm not setup to do that kind of stuff.

So far, I am on Step 18.

The building has been very straightfoward so far.

There aren't any major issues that I have encountered so far. I have learned that everywhere you have a BB, there's also an accompanying washer and/or spacer along with the BB.

So, in no particular order::::

The only thing thas boggles my mind thusfar, is I have 1 extra hole in the swash plate. Instead of 4 holes 90 degrees apart, there's also a fifth hole (between the first and 2nd hole)! Needless to say, I didn't use it, but it was kind of odd to find it there.

The other thing that almost killed me with frustration, is getting the elevator arms, bell-cranks, washers, bearings, and collective mixing arms to go together. Arrrgh! There has to be a better way of doing this, or a better design that's easier to put together. My fingers, legs, toes and whatever other bodyparts I could use to hold the stuff together while screwing is still hurting. Of course, I HAD to put it together WRONG the first 3 tries, because I was looking at the WRONG picture. But I'm over that already.

Also worth noting, is that the engine mount still won't fit a OS50SX w/out dremel modification. It also took quite a while to figure out, that I had to really crank the clutch into the engine, with the thrust washer removed. It is a really tight fit, quite unlike the OS32SX installation.

It seems like the people who wrote the instructions and designed the kit took a lot of effort to make it as smooth as possible. And, after a while, they started to run out of gas.

Bag 1 was great, every part used and accounted for. But on Bag 2, I got some unused parts that I know will be used elsewhere. Everything is accounted for except 2 extra washers. I'm on Step 18 now. The unused parts are beginning to pile up, and it's getting more disorganized on my desk.

Oh, I also balanced the metal fan (yes I bought one!), and clutch and counter gear. As far as CG goes, these things are near perfect.

As far as the counter gear goes, yes, there is some runout, but it wasn't near as bad as some guys were saying. It's about the same as my Hawk SE, about 0.5mm off vertically. Too bad I don't have a dial-indicator setup. So I wasn't able to dial indicate anything.

Of final rather minor note, the counter gear set-up does not fit perfectly. Instructions tell you to adjust until you get a perfect fit into the frame. However, this has proven to be impossible as the shaft is about 1mm too long. So, I just ended up with about 1mm of vertical play. I don't think this will be a problem, as my Hawk SE also has this vertical play.
I know, I could have dremeled the shaft shorter as I did with the engine mount, but I did not want to chance weakening or accidentally bending the shaft.

Based on the manual, I'm about half-way there. Might take a while though, as my Muscle Pipe is in-cognito.

07-29-2002 Over year old.

pkcc
Heliman
Location: CA USA

Re:The only thing thas boggles my mind thusfar, is I have 1 extra hole in the swash plate. Instead of 4 holes 90 degrees apart, there's also a fifth hole (between the first and 2nd hole)! Needless to say, I didn't use it, but it was kind of odd to find it there.
Hi jimmyhua,
The fifth hole is design for Century's IDG scale 4 multi main rotor head used, (CN1104) that extra hole is pre-taped for follower (CN1108) stell ball end, no need for your F50.

07-29-2002 Over year old.

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

counter gear shaft

Hi jimmyhua,,, about the counter gear shaft being to long, you need to add a washer between the counter gear and the bottom bearing, and then add 1 thin washer and one thicker washer between the top gear and the top bearing,,,

I just finished setting up the pitch on my new Falcon, this baby is going to be smooth !!

Jim

07-29-2002 Over year old.

jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Day 2

Okay, I'm on Day 2 of Building the Falcon. Please remember that this is the first heli kit I have ever built.

What I have found is, I suck at building helis, I should stick with airplanes and wood

Step 21 turned out to be a real frustrating experience. The upper frames don't really fit the lower frames w/out bending a little. The engine shroud refused to fit into the shroud of the upper frame.

After playing with it for a good 30 minutes or so. I finally just force fitted everything together and bolted it on. Looking at my handi-work, I was in sheer horror. The engine shroud was rubbing against the head of the engine with quite a bit of force, and the frame was slightly warped. So, I took it apart, and tried it again, and again and again.

I found the source of the problem was that the OS50 is too big for the frame, and the engine shroud was getting in the way. Also worth noting, where the shroud was at, it also partially blocked access to the exhaust.

Finally, I gave in to my old rc airplane building habits (if it don't fit, MAKE IT so that it does FIT). and got out the good old Hack Saw, and dremel tool.

I first tried to trim away small parts of the engine shroud that got in the way of the lower metal frames. After a while, I got really carried away and pretty much chopped the whole thing in half. It still wouldn't fit

.

Finally, I made the discovery, that I should have noticed before I got the heavy artillery out. Which was, that the reason for the bad fit, was that the upper frame shroud was rounded at the bottom, while the engine shroud itself was actually squared.

So, all I had to do was cut off a right angle at the upper frame engine shroud to match the engine shroud itself. It worked perfectly for what was left of the engine shroud, except for the fact that it still butted up against the engine head.

So, then I drilled a new set of mounting holes (quite far away from the original holes, I should have just widened the holes or something) for the plastic shroud, and that fixed that problem.

And then, it came time to mate the servo frame assembly with the upper and lower frames. Umm, It doesn't fit. The holes in the upper frames are too far recessed, and my little engine shroud modification killed the fit to the lower frame.

Out with the dremel again, and took a little plastic off the upper frame, and then more plastic off of the lower Rx tray.

Alrighty, at least the upper/lower frames & landing gear has been bashed together.

Then came the Tail pitch plate assembly, where they recommended you JB Weld the thing to keep it from coming loose. Oh yeah, I JB Welded it good alright. It wouldn't spin anymore. Out with the hobby knife, and pried the thing so it was loose again, it's a bit notchy, but at least it spins around now.

Putting together the Tail Rotor Grip assembly was amazingly smooth. There were some notes about putting in a washer with the larger Inner Diamater first. It took a while, but I finally figured out they were referring to the thrust BB race tracks. Although they may look identical, one of them is smaller than the other one!!! The only way I could tell the difference was by putting it together completely and seeing if it was smooth. If it wasn't smooth, I had it backwards. (No dial caliper, Note to self: I need to get a dial caliper).

Finally worth noting is, that the tail rotor hardly binds. The tail pitch slider will go practically from one end to the other w/out hitting bell-crank. This is unlike my old Hawk SE.

I think I'm so far off the beaten track here. It would be unfair for me to review the flight performance of this heli.

To Summarize, the fit between upper frame and engine shroud needs to improve. Also, the engine shroud needs to be a little bigger to accommodate the OS50SX. All the other stuff mentioned above, is just fodder from this, as all the heli components fit rather tightly in the frame. There's no room for error in this frame set-up.

I think I'm almost done. I wish my servos and replacement Muscle Pipe will come in soon.

07-30-2002 Over year old.

Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

Say whatttttttttttttttttttt???

JimmyHua,
Everything below is said to HELP you and not make you feel stupid:

Now, many others and I have built the Falcon SE II without all that Dremeling, hacksawing, and whatever. I seriously doubt that your kit is different from mine. Also, I seriously doubt that Century designed a product that would not assemble.

So, if you are building a heli kit and things aren't going together then you have something wrong!!!! STOP!!!! Reread and study the pictures. If you get confused call Century Support Line and get some help.

I have this image in my mind of you placing your foot on this partially assembled heli holding it down on the table while sawing away with the hacksaw.

If my memory serves me correct the only things that I had to Dremel were the engine mount to clear the OS .50 and the elevator bellcrank so that it didn't hit the slipper clutch on full negative and forward cyclic. That is all! Yes you have to work the fan shroud extension and motor in place but it will fit. It is unusual at first and seems wrong but actually it just takes some getting used to.

I have the OS .50 in my Falcon. The kit is designed for this motor(with the exception of the motor mount which Kirk informed us that they have changed in the new kits). If the lower frames are not lining up then you either have the wrong parts or you are doing something wrong. Seriously wrong!!

Go to Kirk's building topic and STUDY the pics to make sure you are assembling this correctly. DO NOT "MAKE IT FIT". That is the manufacturers job and if it doesn't fit then you need to call them. The Falcon is a great build but is alot like X-Cell in that you are assembling sub-components that are all machined and not like the plastic helis. For a newcomer it COULD be confusing but not overly. Just feel free to ask questions here or at Century.

07-30-2002 Over year old.

jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Dremeling.

Well, okay. Not counting the stupid things I did.

Here's what was needed to get the kit together thusfar (out of the ordinary that is).

Step 4. Dremeling bolt on main blade grip so it doesn't bind with head. (No big deal, I expect all kits have this problem).

Step 12. Counter gear shaft too long. Either shim it or make it shorter. (hmm, could not figure this one out). I also dremeled some plastic out, so that the set-screw wouldn't hit the plastic (it was hitting the plastic).

Step 14. Dremel elevator bellcrank to get clearance due to slipper clutch. (mentioned in the manual! Oh yeah!) Optional, if you choose not to have slipper, then it's not necessary. Update: I recommend you NOT dremel it until, after you have it together and see how it binds. I ended up dremeling too much where it didn't matter, and not enough where it would matter. The drawing in the manual is not 3-d enough.

Step 19. Dremel engine mount to fit OS50.

Step 20. Dremeled a small slot in the fuel clunk so it can still suck fuel if it got stuck in a corner. Also, smoothed out the cuts afterwards as they were sharp.

Step 20. Take apart fuel tank to get to fit into frames, after just having been told to put it together.

Step 21. Dremel upper frame engine shroud squared off, instead of rounded to fit, other piece of engine shroud which is shaped square. You can force fit it (the frames will be under stress). But it sure don't feel right to me. Elongate holes on lower mainframes to adjust engine shroud location, and add washer to self-tapping plastic screw. (hmm, should have done it this way, but didn't). Wait a minute! It's not too late yet! ;P

Step 22. Sand upper frame holes so that Servo tray will fit and pivot on the two top holes. OR, take some plastic off servo tray to get a better fit. The upper frames are more expensive, so I did more of the later.

Step 27. Drilling hole through tail rotor drive shaft. It was too small for the pin. (no big deal).

Step 34B. Filing boom so that O-ring will slip through instead of getting cut up by tail boom. (Soap wasn't enough)

Step 35A. Drilling tail bellcrank bolt holder to slightly larger, as bolt would not thread through. (no big deal).

Step 45. For some reason or other. I got one too many 80mm pushrods and was missing a 75mm pushrod for the throttle. So ended up shortening the 80mm pushrod with a dremel.

Well, that's all I done so far. As far as the stupid mistakes go. I'll probably need a new engine shroud and tail-pitch plate. However, I want to see if I can still make these rather butchered parts work. To make things back to totally stock, add a lower & upper servo tray to that list.

Jimmy

07-30-2002 Over year old.

Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

Oh yes...

Jimmy,
I stand corrected.

Step 4) I too filed down the bolt that holds the bell mixers on. If you don't it will rub on the headblock.

Step 12) I did have to elongate the flat on the countergear shaft to create a spot for the hex screw to grab. The flat needed to be extended down. Mine has been fine after 4 gallons so far.

For the rest of the things you mentioned I had no problems.

The bearing holder for the torque tube is a tight fit but the hand soap trick was fine. Tail bell crank went right in, tail rotor shaft drive pin was tight but should be(it went in by hand though), and the fan shroud is supposed to be tight. I had to wrestle mine in place but it is designed to slide upwared OVER the existing fan area molded into the upper frame. What makes this hard to do is to get the fan while mounted on the engine inside there get the shroud into place. That is what I was referring to as difficult. But it goes right up there.

Man, you must have gotten some bad parts. If I were you I would send them ALL in and have it done right from the start. But, I am too much of a perfectonist. If you are ok with it then that is all that matters.

07-30-2002 Over year old.

Ray Fernandez
Elite Veteran
Location: Guam (U.S.A.)

Hey Jimmy,

Stumbled onto your posting here. Glad to hear you got the Falcon in. If you need help in the building process, please call me. I can tell you from experience that "forcing" anything into another part of the heli is not a good idea. It's all in the scheme of things

Ray Fernandez - GUAM

07-30-2002 Over year old.

jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Day 3

Hey Lift,

To be honest, all the little fitting that I did, was really no big deal. I am DONE! I was just so antsy about the whole thing, and if I didn't have to fit stuff, I would have finished in one day :P. There was some extra stuff I did, was due to experience with Hawk SE (like putting electrical tape on the tail boom where the grips meet for better grip. Wait a minute, I never posted that anywhere! Oh well, I did it

).

Well, actually servo's just came in today. And I'm still short a Left exhaust header for the Muscle Pipe. Still can't fly!!! Arrgh!

Anyways, I'm done! I'm done, all I need is a tuned pipe header that will fit the muscle pipe. And, if you read between the lines for the step no's. there's hints as to how Century might be able to make minor changes to make the kit better (even a little update to the manuals is worth a whole lot to me).

I took a look at volcain's post again, and noticed that his dog-bone collars for his torque tube drive is white. Mine are black. What does this mean?

Here is a fact, if this heli flies half as good as it looks. I'll probably buy another one! Reason, being is that I live in the middle of nowhere. I'll need a spare heli!

Anyone know of any aftermarket larger fuel tanks that fit this heli?

I have to go back and look for a shouldered bolt for the main mast. Some guys were talking about it for a crash. But I KNOW I stuck a regular bolt on there, as that was what was in the bag.

07-31-2002 Over year old.

Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

Shouldered Bolts

Jimmy,
Since the Falcon SE has mainshaft collars that keep the mainshaft from separting from the heli I would put a standard fully threaded 3mm bolt in the mainshaft/autorotation hub and a SHOULDERED bolt on the headblock/mainshaft end.

Reason is I case you didn't notice my post this morning about my crash the bottom bolt sheared on impact in IDLE UP1 and prevented a chicken dance. Yes, the revs soared but if the battery had stayed in the heli I could have shut it down via the transmitter.

I am glad that the bolt sheared and I can't see any reason that it would shear from normal flying. It just took an impact hard enough like using the ground to stop the rotors to break the bolt!

07-31-2002 Over year old.

jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Heli-talk

Lift,

I was using the wrong heli-terms, so you misunderstood me. I meant, that for both the mainshaft auto-hub & the headblock were using standard 3mm bolts as supplied.

I need to find some shouldered bolts for the headblock.

07-31-2002 Over year old.

jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Franken Heli

Well, good old Ray Fernandez was out at the local flying field talking about the post I made here in RunRyder. And based on the descriptions of my problems with the heli, he was shaking his head all day long, and described my heli as the "Frankenstein Helicopter."

I liked the name so much, I shall christen it's name as Franken Heli!!

Well, I had a chance to install the servo's and servo pushrods onto Franken Heli today. And I ended up editing a previous "Dremeling" post I made to keep up to date with the extra changes I made.

Step 39 & 40. The aileron pushrod should be alot shorter than the stated 160mm. The 160mm is only good if you use the aileron differential setup as described in Step 40. But do you know of anyone who has a round servo horn, with holes 11mm off center and 10 degrees offset made for Hitec? The good news is, all you have to do is screw the eyelets in even more.

Step 42 & 43. The elevator pushrod length is about spot on. However, I used the 12mm hole on the servo horn instead of the recommended 11mm hole (does not exist). The elevator bell-crank butts up against the slipper clutch and binds when given low collective and down elevator inputs. I ended up yanking that thing apart again, and now that I can see where it's binding. I found that some of what I dremeled off was unnecessary, and not enough in some other areas. I ripped that thing apart, and took more plastic off. Now that bellcrank practically wraps itself around the slipper clutch without touching it

Step 44. No problems here really. However, I am glad to find the drawing on the bottom of this page! You will note that there is this super small hole right infront of the maingear that looks like you're supposed to make the pushrod fit through (but the pushrod is too thick). I've done this on a previous Hawk 3 and Hawk SE in an effort to make the tail stiffer. Finally, I can find something that shows this ain't necessary. Otherwise they would have mentioned it in this drawing.

Step 47. No problems here either. I thought I mention, this is the BEST fitting canopy, I ever had to work with. If you simply follow the cuts as laid out on the molds on both the white and transparent piece, they simply fit together!!! I'm sorry, this is a first time for me, after building 2 scale airplanes, this never happens except today!!!

No Particular Step (Try Step 22 for a picture). I used to be able to fit my CSM540 Gyro in the lower tray between all the servos. However, it don't fit in there no more (without touching stuff). I think it's because I'm using higher end servos, and they are a bit bigger (umm taller). So anyways, I got the itch again, and modified the way the switchplate mounts onto the servo tray. It now sticks out a good 1/2 inch thanks to some 4-40 engine mount bolts and 12 rubber grommets. I got plenty of space now!!! Hopefully it will all still fit in the canopy.

Optional Parts. I installed the Header tank, in the same usual place as where the Hawk SE was. However, to add a little twist. The Franken Heli's Header Tank is angled up 45 degrees kind of cock-eyed.

Franken Heli is doing good. I sat her next to the old Hawk SE, and to my surprise, the frames of both helis look exactly the same. The differences between the two heli's are where they count most. Namely, stiffer lower frames, improved & beefier head design, torque tube drive, twin boom supports, and improved tail bell crank.

I haven't checked the collective pitch range yet, I noticed Century stopped advertising how much you can get off their kits. Just by eyeballing it, I think I can get +/- 15

This is going to be one wild ride!

08-01-2002 Over year old.

Ray Fernandez
Elite Veteran
Location: Guam (U.S.A.)

Great Name!

Hey Jimmy,

Sorry for the disconcerning head shaking.....I guess John told you what I was doing ....opppssss!

Anyhow, I like to see what you had done on the heli. John explained that it was the shroud that you took the Dremel to and I sighed a relief that it wasn't the frame.

Ray Fernandez - GUAM

08-01-2002 Over year old.

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

I can't read this stuff any more !!

Both my Hawk SE V2 and Falcon V2 went together smooth right out of the box,,, no problems !!

Jim

08-02-2002 Over year old.

voclain
Senior Heliman
Location: Houma, LA

A good friend of mine....

.....who is the FINEST airplane builder I know. BAR NONE!!! Told me a long time ago:

NEVER, never get in a hurry with a kit. IF you get frustrated, back off, go get a glass of water, or a beer, take a deep breath and start over.

ON my kit, the only time I did not follow that advice was when I was putting together the gas tank and the lower frame. I got in a hurry, started pushing, and ripped a hole the size of Texus in my tank.

NOW that I look back, I'm so glad it happened. IT tought me the best leason!! NEVER, NEVER get in a hurry, and NEVER force fit a helicopter.

Yours,

Kirk Voclain

08-02-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

voclain & theWasp,

On your Falcon kits, what color was the torque tube interfaces?

I see on voclain's they are white. Mine were black.

I suspect my Falcon SEv2 kit was an early kit and has been sitting on the shelf for a long time from whoever I bought it from, and thus the various minor problems.

Hey Ray, with some luck, I'll be out on the field this Sunday. I'll bring Franken Heli with me.

Jimmy

08-02-2002 Over year old.

Lift
Elite Veteran
Location: Houston, TX

Kit versions

JimmyHua,
The torque tube drive couplers you are referring to were WHITE in my kit purchased at the end of May. I know that I had to Dremel the following:
1) Motor mount to accomodate the OS .50
2) Elevator Bellcrank to clear the slipper
3) Counter gear shaft to lower th "flat" so the set screw had a place to grab.
4) Anti-Rotation bracket channel to prevent binding at full + pitch and Fore cyclic.

I do know that some of this is subjective to an individual's setup but Century really does need to correct the Counter gear shaft, 46/50 motor mount, and the elevator bellcrank. These issues could get the beginning builder in trouble if they don't know what to look for. Obviously you had an older version kit. Sorry you had to do all that.

Century is similar to MA in that when they release a kit they have been quick to address issues as they pop up similar to how the Fury had so many kit changes early on. For example, Kirk told me that he didn't have to Dremel the motor mount on his OS .50 installation.

08-02-2002 Over year old.

jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Lift! Thanks

Thanks for the heads-up lift. I just got around to setting up my pitch curves today.

And I found, that my anti-rotation bracket was too small also. I looked at the bracket, and found, if I had to dremel it, the whole top would have to come off. Instead I took apart the anti-rotation bracket, and mounted it on the top hole instead of the middle hole. This allowed for minimal dremeling at the bottom (which there's more metal that can be taken off).

Without the anti-rotation bracket. I found this heli can do a mind boggling +/-17 degrees and around 6+ degrees of cyclic. This is with the swash plate bottoming out onto the frame, and hitting the head on the top side. The cool part was, only some cyclic binding and nothing else!

Of course, with all that pitch available to you Century's manual suggests you use the 12mm servo hole horn postion. Which gave me exactly +/-10 degrees.

I opted to stick with this pitch range and I did some very minor dremeling at the bottom of the anti-rotation bracket. So the bracket only supports a +/-10 degrees.

Well, one day, I plan to get rid of the anti-rotation swatch bracket, stick a monster servo and servo horn on that collective and try out the full monte!!! I have a feeling this heli will make a good drag racer.

Oh, my serial # on the kit is 4776. I just found that on my registration card, which I prolly should send!

Jimmy

08-03-2002 Over year old.

Cougar
Senior Heliman
Location: Kalona, Iowa

Lift

I got my Falcon the same day as jimmyhua On 7/29
Almost done. The only thing I had to Dremal was
the
((((Step 4) I too filed down the bolt that holds the bell mixers on. If you don't it will rub on the headblock.))))
And My Engine OS 50 Fit fine. I little tight but it went in..
Anyways And that engine shroud.. WOW only after about 40 mins
and a few choice words.. It went Snap and IN!

I love this place soooo much help! Yeppers!
Jeff

08-14-2002 Over year old.

jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Not meant to be.

Damn Cougar,

You're making me want to get another one, just to see how much the fit and finish has improved.

I think GOD is trying to tell me something. I finally got the correct LEFT header for the muscle pipe Tuesday, stuck the thing on Tuesday night.

I went to break in the engine on Wednesday, and you'll never guess what happened.

No, no problem with the heli. It flies smooth as glass even though the engine rich by about the tune of 2.5 turns. The tail mod I was was DEAD on, and required no trims what soever. And even with the engine so rich, I still had the HH gain at 50% w/out problems.

No, the problems appeared at around the second tank of gas while hovering.

The heli started to glitch like crazy. I landed her, and tried to ID the source of the glitch. Possible pipe rubbing against header, or remote glo starter rubbing against boom support. So I increase the gap on the tuned pipe, restarted her up, and it glitched like crazy again.

Then, I removed the remote glo starter, and now, you'll never guess what happened next.

The engine wouldn't start. In fact, it jammed up so bad, I think there's a BB stuck in the head of the OS50SX. I took out the glo plug, and yep, it's STUCK!

So anyways, I figured out what happened. A ball-bearing in the OS50SX must have given out and was bouncing all over the place in the engine, causing the heli to glitch like crazy. The engine is stuck tighter than a drum right now, But I haven't had a chance to take it apart. Will do that tommorrow.

This really sucks big time. The good news, is I know how to solve these kinds of problems. (Throw more money at it!).

Buying 2 more OS50SX's. (Maybe I should consider a different engine). If you know anything that will fit the Falcon and CY Muscle Pipe nicely, let me know. The sad news is, it will take over 2 weeks (most likely) to get here. So I'm still stuck with just the Hawk SE. Blarrgh!

I'll stamp you heli demons out yet!!!

Jimmy

08-14-2002 Over year old.

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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > Falcon 50 SEv2 Building Review.

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