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Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC . Real Raptors

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e-Electric Conversions > eRaptor info exchange......."setups"
 
 
flyanything
Senior Heliman
Location: Tallahassee, FL

I put the on the flight data recorder today. The data from the first 5 min. flight was not captured because I accidentally put the recorder on (idiot). But the second 5 min. flight captured some good data. The flight consisted of FFF with several full pitch climbouts. I have idle1 thr curve set at 85% flat line which yields a headspeed of 2050rpm in hover. Max amp draw was 41amps, motor case temp reached 163F. The climbouts were not balistic but then again I'm not running in gov mode yet and you can hear the headspeed drop when full pitch is applied.

Regarding gear lash... if anything the gear lash is too loose with some clacking sound when turned by hand. I was wondering if this could be causing the heat in the gearbox. It's a pain to adjust the lash without dropping the motor so I haven't tightened it up and it appears to fly ok so far.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

John
09-18-2005 Over year old.
 
 
flyanything
Senior Heliman
Location: Tallahassee, FL

It might be worth mentioning that the ambient temperature at the field was about 94F.

John
09-18-2005 Over year old.
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

Hi John,
First the gearmesh. It will always sound clacky because the motor has a slight cog to it. I think it's better to err on the slack side as the gears appear to be case hardened. If this is the case, you don't want wear off the hardened surface by having them tight and "running them in".

Check out this:
http://www.realraptors.co.uk/zen-ca..._page=whats_new

There are some videos there of the Szabos flying with data in vision and a graph at the end. You can make out the data on the graphs to compare with yours.

I'm not sure why you would want a flat line throttle curve if you're not running in governer mode.

I gave mine some abuse yesterday in about 60F ambient. At the end of the flight, no part of the motor, esc, gearbox or battery was too hot to touch. The rear bearing of the motor gets uncomfortable after a while, but not painful. I guess 94F would make quite diference. How long is your flight time? If you can abuse it for 8 minutes and put back 3000-3200mAh then you're as efficient as mine and the heat must be due to the ambient. You may need to consider fitting a fan onto the back of the motor if you're going to fly in that heat.
It sounds like your headspeed is good, but I would be concerned if the climbouts are not ballistic. Mine could pull 12 degrees pitch without bogging down when the batteries were new. A full power climb of about 5seconds gave enough height for a 20 second auto. It's a little more mellow now that the batteries are older, but not much.

Hope this helps

Andy

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
09-19-2005 Over year old.
 
 
flyanything
Senior Heliman
Location: Tallahassee, FL

Andy,

The flatline curves are there because I had planned on running in gov mode... but am having some problems getting that to work. Last time I tried it the heli would only spool up to about 500 rpm and would then pulse the throttle. I have read the Schultze manual which recommends putting the throttle on a slider, but I thought it would work the same with a Normal mode throttle curve with piont 1 being 0% and the other four points being 70% (1600rpm) and then have my idle1 at 85% flatline (2050rpm). But I can't get it to spool up fully unless I put it back into non-gov mode. How is your throttle set up on your radio to use gov mode?

This may be contributing to the heat issue... full pitch climbout with the throttle staying at 85% is probably loading the motor terribly.

John
09-20-2005 Over year old.
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

Hi John,
We might be getting to the bottom of it now.
I have had trouble in the past with intermittant soft start failure followed by failure to reach expected rpm.
The cause turned out to be the dip switch pack on the esc causing it to go into aeroplane mode. I considered removing the switch pack, but there's much risk of damaging the board without specialist soldering gear. In the end I soldered jumpers over the three switches that need to be "on". The problem has now gone away.
Does your motor feel stiffer to turn when the esc is powered? If it does, the brake is on and your esc is in aero mode. The soft start should allow you to switch to idle up straight from stopped quite comfortably.

As far as throttle curves go, I've got just the set up you mention with zero at the bottom rising to 55% at quater stick and then constant 55%.
Idle up is just constant 55%. The Schulze doesn't have much range of speed adjustment in governer mode. 55% is still around 2000rpm. I don't think you get down to 1600 with this setup. I've never had any trouble with pulsing except at very low throttle positions. The motor/gearbox assembly can be run up quite happily removed from the model.

Try wiggling the switches back and forth a few times. If this fails to get the governer mode working, then it'll look bad for the esc.

regards
Andy

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
09-20-2005 Over year old.
 
 
modifyit15
Veteran
Location: Wilmington, NC

went on tppacks.com cause I want to convert my stinger 50 but now I have second thoughts it will cost me $1500 to convert it. I had no Idea it would be that expensive. the video of Alan http://www.tppacks.com/video/MWE-05...bo 2-19-05.wmv

makes it a little convincing though.

Heli Dr.
09-28-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RescueHelicopter
Veteran
Location: Portland Oregon

I got my stretched raptor 50 now I am going to do the conversion. Im going to have a camera on there and Its NOT for 3D so I want to use 8000mah batts but Im not sure of what motor. I knwo that the box will give you more power but is it more effecien than having a lower kv motor on there direct? Can anyone sugest a motor that will give me the most flying time?



view my aerial photography pictures www.somethingforever.com
09-30-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
phat742
Heliman
Location: las vegas, nv - usa

E-Raptor 30V2

Here's my setup

Raptor 30 V2
Hacker C50 12XL
V2 box
Hacker 77-0 Heli ESC
45v UBEC
Thunder Power 8s2p "prolite"
JR DS811 digital servos all around

Awesome setup with nice power for pretty much anything. I am changing everything to aluminum and carbon fiber hopefully before the Las Vegas Superfly at the TOC field November 13th & 14th.

It's about $1200 for the whole drive setup with two batteries.

i can feel the thud when it hits the ground. hehe
10-02-2005 Over year old.
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

Hello Hoverdelight,

You might want to try a Hacker C50 20XL (840rpm/V). With a 10s battery and the Raptor30 gears you should get about 1600rpm headspeed, and about 1800 with Raptor50 gears. The TP recommended motors give headspeeds of over 2000 which I would suggest is too fast for carrying a camera around.
I was going to build this combination for someone who wanted a non 3D Raptor but he's not given me the go-ahead yet, so I can't say it definately works, but it looks good on paper.

Maybe someone out there has done it and can let us know?

regards
Andy

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
10-02-2005 Over year old.
 
 
hobbyboy
Senior Heliman
Location: Puyallup,WA

tean, any idea on what the run time will be for a 70% depletion of the battery?


phat742, what king of run time are you getting?
10-02-2005 Over year old.
 
 
flyanything
Senior Heliman
Location: Tallahassee, FL

OK guys, I think I have the temperature issue under control... last 8 minute 3D flight on the data recorder showed high temp at 160F with hight amp draw at 50 amps. This was all flown using throttle curves as the gov mode is still not working on the Schulze. The 10s2p prolite pack is still getting hotter than I would like but we'll see how it fairs.

Now the only remaining issue is the gov mode on the Schulze. I've emailed Gary at tppacks regarding this problem but have not heard back from him yet. I'm hoping to either get the one I have working or get it replaced with one that works. I would also be willing to try the Jazz 55 as I've had good results using the Jazz 40 on my TREX... works great!

Anyway, these conversion projects are just too expensive to not have everything working the way it's supposed to.

John
10-02-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Real Raptors
Senior Heliman
Location: UK

Hi John
i think you will find that the gov mode on the Jazz 55-10-32 is alot better than the Schulze 32.55K

I have both, one in each of our 600EP Heli's and the Jazz has alot more locked head speed than the schulze when pushed hard

What motor are you running?

Andy
10-02-2005 Over year old.
 
 
flyanything
Senior Heliman
Location: Tallahassee, FL

I'm running the Neu 1515-2Y.

John
10-02-2005 Over year old.
 
 
RescueHelicopter
Veteran
Location: Portland Oregon

Tean, I have heard that the NEU 15152y and actro 24-5 are way better motors and are more efficient.


All I need to to know what one will give me longer flight times. I do not care about 3D

view my aerial photography pictures www.somethingforever.com
10-03-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

hoverdelight,
You may well be correct, but the Neu1515-2y, which is what I have, will give a headspeed of over 2000rpm and you'll have to stick with that if you want to run the motor efficiently. That's not a very efficient headspeed if you don't want to do aerobatics. A headspeed of around 1500-1600rpm would give longer run times because there is less drag in the rotor system.
If you want to use the Neu, I'd come down to 8s batteries to drop the headspeed.
I don't know anything about Actro motors. They don't seem to be widely available in Europe.
The thing to remember with the Raptor is that you can't change the gear ratio much, so it's important to get a motor which gives you the headspeed you want. You can't fiddle it afterwards by changing pinions, and dialling the speed down on the controller reduces the efficiency.
I suggested the Hacker because I know of others who are using the C50 successfuly and I know it will fit. At low rpm/V like this, an outrunner may well be a better choice, but they tend to be fatter so you'd have to measure up carefully.

To Hobbyboy,
With my setup, for 3 to 3.2Ah used from a 10s pack, I get 8 mins of solid 3D, and about 10ish mins of gentle flight. I would guess, and it is a guess, I would get 12, maybe 13mins of gentle stuff, if I could tweek the gears for a lower headspeed of about 15-1600.

Regards to all,
Andy

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
10-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
phat742
Heliman
Location: las vegas, nv - usa

runtime is around 10 minutes. but that's only easy flying and some hovering.

i can feel the thud when it hits the ground. hehe
10-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Real Raptors
Senior Heliman
Location: UK

Hi Tean
if you drop to a 8s2p setup from a 10s2p with the neu1515-2y your motor speed drops fom 40,000 to 31,000, which is not very efficient, and so your current draw for the cells goes up, which in turn would be to much for your Jazz or Schulze esc.

If you want to use the NEU1515-2y you already have, you can change to a 95T R60 main gear and Logo 8T gear, this will give a head speed of approx 1600 or 1800 head speed with the R30 9T gear you already have, but you will have to use the XeroG 600ep, as the box is adjustable for the gear lash

Andy
10-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
tean
Senior Heliman
Location: Gloucestershire,UK

Hi Andy,

I stand corrected.

I don't want to change anything on my Raptor: I think it's fab as it is. But it seems there are people out there who would trade some aerobatic performance for longer flight time by running at lower headspeed. If the new 600ep allows more flexibility in the gearing as you say, then that's one more reason to stop shopping at Tesco and spend the money at Real Raptors instead.

Andy

Logo14 Vbar, Logo500 CSM flybarless, Trex 600 CSM flybarless, 3DMP, Logo10, Lipoly, Mini T, .......
10-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Real Raptors
Senior Heliman
Location: UK

Hi Andy
this is the image of the 95T gear and spacer





I need to test this, and if ok, will offer as an option for a lower head speed alternative, also if you put a NEU1521 in and run on 12s2p it gain offers more options for 3D flying and head speed, i.e. higher voltage, lower motor and LiPo temp, lower current draw, more efficiency, longer flight times

Andy
10-03-2005 Over year old.
 
 
flyanything
Senior Heliman
Location: Tallahassee, FL

Update

Well, it's getting worse before it gets better (I hope it gets better). I tried using the "expert" governor mode on the Schulze 32.55k to fix my gov spoolup problems. I was able to switch to that mode without a problem... ESC beeps confirmed mode. But there was no change in the spool-up behavior... still spooled to about 400rpm and then pulsed throttle. So, I switched back to standard throttle mode and flew about 5 minutes of mild 3D using throttle curves. After 5 minutes the power dropped suddenly, so much that I had to auto it down. When I pulled the 10s2p pack out ONE OF THE CELLS WAS PILLOWED! That cell measured about 180F while the rest of the pack was about 120F. So, not only do I have a $350 ESC that won't spool up in GOV mode, I now have a $400 battery that is useless. :-(

Gary at tppacks.com thinks the GOV problem is probably an ESC problem and he is sending me a Jazz 55-10-32 "loaner" to try with my existing Neu 1515-2Y motor. He is also sending me another Neu 1515-2Y to help troubleshoot the problem (nice guy). I have already talked to ThunderPower over the phone and shipped the 10s2p lipo back to them for repair/replacement. Hopefully the pack will come back quickly so I can test the new ESC and/or motor and get this whole mess ironed out. Boy, the things we will do just to have a little fun!!!!!

Hangin' in there,
John
10-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
3 pages [ <<    <     1     ( 2 )     3     NEXT    >> ]8642 viewsPOST REPLY
Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC . CanoMod

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e-Electric Conversions > eRaptor info exchange......."setups"
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