RunRyder - Hawk IV Setup Help

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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > Hawk IV Setup Help

The Pilot
Heliman
Location: Argyll, Scotland, UK

Hey Guys,

After rebuilding my hawk after a crash and armed with Rays book, I have noticed that when using the beginners control rod lengths the aileron bellcranks and elevator bellcrank are not at 90* as recommended by Ray.
Does this matter ?

Also my total collective travel is +10 to -15. Does this sound right? It seems like an awful lot of -ve pitch.
With the rod attached to the servo I have -3 to +10 and as I don't have a computer radio yet can't adjust it through the tranny. ( I will be getting a Sanwa RD6000super soon)

Your thoughts would be appreciated, particularly from oldfart who is a clever dude

TIA

Iain.

07-25-2002 Over year old.

oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Collective set up

Hi Iain,

After that I guess I will have to get my typing figures moving

I am assuming we are dealing with the Hawk IV (10mm mainshaft) and not the Hawk III which had a shorter 8mm mainshaft.

First, as you mentioned that you had just rebuilt from a crash I would like to check if you had replaced the elevator I want you to make sure that if you had to replace the molded elevator A-arm assembly (a very rare requirement, but does happen) that if it is the Hawk IV that you have replaced it with the proper HI3032B rather then the shorter HI3032A as this will scu everything the wrong way. The 302A is only about 51mm in length and the 302B is 61mm in length

Assuming that you have the 10mm shaft (I believe you do otherwise you would be hard pressed top get a total collective travel of 25 degrees) you can use the lengths that you used before (not from the Ray's hanbook) the ones in the addendum from the manual as they worked before so I see no reason why they would not work again.

It is impossible for any manufacturer to give the proper length for ALL control rods for ALL desired set-ups due to many factors from individual preferences to different locations of the center of the servo wheels on different dservos relative to their various lengths. Consequently, those in most manuals are a guide to insure a set up will be close to optimum for most servos, so that it will not require radical differences to get them right.

The alignment of the bellcranks you are refering to are the most effected by the dimensions of different servos so to align them you will have to adjust the rods from the servos to the appropriate bellcranks. (rods E and F). To insure symmetrical cyclic throws and minimal mixing, be sure to set everything (as per the manual) so that when your cyclic stick is centered, the arm/wheel is attached to the servo output shaft so the control rods are 90 degrees to the servo arm on an imaginary line drawn between your ball joint and the center of the servo wheel/arm and the line described by your pushrod to your control bellcrank ball joint. This may seem comfusing at first, but read it over a few times if necessary to understand it fully.

Phil

07-26-2002 Over year old.

ncostes
Veteran
Location: US

Pilot

Obey oldfart

I put my Hawk IV together before I had ray's manual.

The hawk manual was pretty good, and the control rod lengths given in the ADDENDUM (also avilable on their web site) (not the ones printed in the manual) were good starting places.

After my first 2 crashes (pilot error) and with some help from DwayneT I stared to figure out that the manual is just a starting point

When I trimmed the hawk the last time, I used the TX trims first to get things like I wanted, then I went back and adjusted the control rod lengths so that I could set the trims back to 0 on the TX and everything would be stable.

Dwayne helped me learn what the engine should sound like and now I set my curves and adjust control rod lengths to get the desired effect.

-3 to +10 sounds ok, but you won't really know till you fly as your goal is to keep the head speed constant throughout the range of throttle stick throw. What is the pitch when you're at 1/2 stick or whatever you hover at? Is the pitch range linear (so 1/2 stick is 6.5 degrees)?

I was able to set mine up for +/-12 by messing with where I put the rod on the servo wheel, and with control rod lengths.

Even with your analog radio, you have a 3 point pitch curve - it's just that it's implemented with 2 pots

- one to move the high point and one to shift the curve up and down (at least if you have something like my old vanguard 6ch heli radio).

Finally, obey Oldfart

Good luck,
Nick

07-26-2002 Over year old.

The Pilot
Heliman
Location: Argyll, Scotland, UK

Thanks oldfart and ncostes. (both smart dudes )

It does have the 10mm mainshaft and has not had the elevator replaced.
It flew fine before, I was just wanting to see if I could set it up better.

I have 5* at 1/2 stick and it hovered fine at that before.

If I find my headspeed is too high now do I adjust the rod from the collective servo to increase pitch or some other rod?

Now I am hoping for some respite from our crap summer weather and a day off from relentless work to get a chance to fly the thing.

It has been so long I'll need to start from scratch again

Cheers

Iain.

07-26-2002 Over year old.

ncostes
Veteran
Location: US

Which analog radio do you have? There may be 2 pots that you can use to set up a basic 3 point pitch curve.

It may also have a hovering pitch knob you can turn that would adjust the pitch at 1/2 stick.

The problem with just adjusting the control rod lengths on the head to fix your head speed at one stick position is that it will also change at other stick positions (that's why the curves are good).

Like I said a lot of analog radios implement a 3 pt curve w/2 pots so post your brand/model of radio and lets see if we can figure it out

07-26-2002 Over year old.

The Pilot
Heliman
Location: Argyll, Scotland, UK

It's a Futaba Challenger 6ch (FP-6NFK), very similar to the Sanwa Vanguard.
No hovering pitch knob unfortunately.

Cheers

Iain.

07-27-2002 Over year old.

ncostes
Veteran
Location: US

The sanwa vanguard had 2 pots I can use to set the 3 points.
Do you have anything like that?
Mine are labelled "high pitch" and "pitch trim".
Years ago all people had were this type of radio and they were able to fly and do aerobatics with them

I was able to fly with mine.

07-27-2002 Over year old.

MobileRaptor
Veteran
Location: Orange, Texas

Thank old Fart

I was just getting ready to make a post.

Here's the story.

First the helicoptor
The helicopter is kind of a montage the upper main frames, swash plate head and so forth are from a Falcon 46 including the main shaft (10mm). the rest of the parts are from a hawk III. The helo flys farly well.

But today my Futaba 8U airplane radio went FUBAR, so I decided to change the receiver to a JR and fly it with my 10X.

Well, we all know that when you change from one brand of radio to another you need to go through the set up. The best pitch range I could get was Pos 10 and neg 7. after playing with it for two hours I couldn't get it any better.

I went through everything using the 90 degree method and the one thing that seemed to be messing me up was the length of the "A" frame.

I just hope my local hobby shop has the part in stock.

Yes, I fly Raptor for the most part, but I do most of my flying farely high. I put the old hawk back in commission to pratice low level flight trying to stay under 10 feet. I had a crash with it about two weeks ago and it's the first time I laughed after a crashed. I was doing something stupid and knew it. I call it my NO FEAR helicopter.

07-31-2002 Over year old.

oldfart
Elite Veteran
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Fore/Aft A Link

Hi Mobile Raptor

I would bet you have the short 51mm A link that was for use on the shorter 8mm shaft. Measure it and make sure it is the 61mm unit. For rod lengths using the longer "A" unit go to the manual for the Falcon SE and use the lengths suggested there. This should get you pretty close.

You also mentioned "Falcon 46" . The Falcon 46 is the very first version. To clarify the unit you have crossed with the Hawk III, does it have a swashplate that has a plastic inner and plastic outer star, or does it have the newer "Hawk IV & previous SE" swashplate that has a metal inner star with a GRP outer star with a full complement of metal ball joints?

If it has the old swashplate, I would recommend that you upgrade to either the Hawk IV unit or the New SE unit for 3D flying. The old original plastic unit was designed to take the more gentle forces of basic training, not for 3D use.

Phil

08-01-2002 Over year old.

mike lewis
Senior Heliman
Location: northeastern AZ

short break in the subjeck

Hay Mobile Raptor do you have a tuned pipe in your massive flight box of new and used that would fit an OS-32FX-H I don't want to say what it goes in but it rimes with Lexus. Sorry to inturupt the flow. Thanks Mike michaellewis@frontiernet.net PS I saw your paint job on the canopy in the Gallery WOW you are getting good at that!

08-01-2002 Over year old.

MobileRaptor
Veteran
Location: Orange, Texas

Hi Mike

Sorry,no more tuned pipes, sold them all off.

Hi Phil

I did some measurements and yes it was the shorter 30 style "A" arm. I contacted my LHS and of course they didn't have one in stock.

Well, being a person that is sometimes not known for waiting for stuff. I remove the 30 size "A" frame, used a belt sander to remove the ball eye, drill the proper size hole through the middle of it and installed threaded ball link. I then adjusted everthing.

With the 10x travel set at 150 I now have 24 degrees of movement. I reduced the pitch movement to 115, this gives me 20 degrees of movement which is about all I think a 30 size engine can handle.

I do have a 45 size motor mount, I wonder what it would do with a 46 engine with the 550's and a short boom.

08-01-2002 Over year old.

MobileRaptor
Veteran
Location: Orange, Texas

Hi mike, did you look at all the pic's in my gallery (display all)

08-01-2002 Over year old.

mike lewis
Senior Heliman
Location: northeastern AZ

Hay Mobile Raptor

Yes I did. You sure look different without a mustash . The gallery is a cool place I will hopefully be there soon. My flying has greatly improved I have a Falcon46 the machine is so fun to learn on I replaced the tail links at the blade grips and after 45 seconds of thrilling piros I am now replaceing the mains and looseing up the too tight link arm. They were stuck aand my JR 2700 tial servo is fast but not strong! and in she went well I figure it is a good lesson in common scense and smooth non binding linkages My X-CELL gasser is due in tomorrow Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!! O-yes the gallery you have some very nice machenry looks like a lot of personal pride of ownership is showing up there. But I felt that on previous experiences with you. You are a straight shooter well my two part glue is starting to set up so till later your friend afar Mike

08-01-2002 Over year old.

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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > Hawk IV Setup Help

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