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Century Helicopter . MTA Hobbies . Model Rectifier Corp

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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > Problem using 94758Z servos on eCCPM - NEW FINDINGS!
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

Hello guys,

i just converted my X-spec to eCCPM, using 4 x 94758Z servos for eCCPM and throttle, and a CSM 560 \ 9254 for tail, also running a TJ Pro governor.

the battery system consists of a Duralite 4000 Mah Li-ion pack with a 5.1V switched regulator.

now here is the problem, when you wiggle the collective quickly for a few seconds, it will appear to have momentary "freezes" in motion, and then would continue going - this is very noticeable.

after playing with it for a few minutes the Duralite regulator got hot, so i guess thats where the problem lies.

any ideas on how to cure this ? maybe use 2 regulators in parallel ? who else is running 94758Z servos on eCCPM and how ?

PS - radio is ATX Stylus.

thanks !

Team pilot for Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco, Gaui
www.liorzahavi.com
03-10-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gnichola
Senior Heliman
Location: Santa Rosa, CA. USA

Are your servos new? I have had a couple of these servos go bad on me and I hadn't considered the regulator....perhaps I should

Regards, Guy
03-10-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

you had this same problem using just a single servo for collective...

squigle
03-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

gnichola, the servos arent new, but dont have a lot of time on them.

Alistair, come to think of it, you got a point, maybe the KO collective servo was drawing too much amps coupled with the 94758Z servos all around, anyway this appears to be clearly a regulator problem, i connected 2 regulators in parallel and the system works well without signs of serious overheating, and to make sure this isnt a faulty regulator i tried 2 more with the same results.

i would still like to hear from people running a similar setup.
thanks.

Team pilot for Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco, Gaui
www.liorzahavi.com
03-10-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

im using:
3 x 94758Z on CCPM
1 x 94758Z on throttle coupled with TJ Pro
1 x S9254 on the tail with the CSM 560 Micro

that is it - im thikning about adding another lead from the pack and using 2 regulators (with 2 switches) in parallel !

where can i get a regulator for higher currents ? never heard of such one.

Team pilot for Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco, Gaui
www.liorzahavi.com
03-10-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

just give in a get 9451's for the swash...no problems.

squigle
03-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

Lior,

The 758's draw a lot of current. If the regulator is not up to the task you have problems. Take the 758 off of the throttle, you don't need it there.

Alan Szabo is running a whole suite of 758's and isn't having this issue.

TM
03-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

Hey Terry,
im running all 94758Z in all my machines with no problems, but the CCPM application, which uses 3 servos for almost every simple command is something else i guess.. and the regulator cant take it.

i dont want to change any of the servos in my setup, im looking for a way to make this current setup work.
thanks.

Team pilot for Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco, Gaui
www.liorzahavi.com
03-11-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
kirk
Veteran
Location: Thornton, Colorado

My thoughts

The airtronics PCM rx resets at a higher voltage than futuba or JR recievers. We had a big problem with this in a 40% Carden... I am not sure if the duralite reg can handle the current you are pulling while keeping the voltage above the Airtronics reset voltage... Two regs might work or a better designed reg might work as well. Are you using a reg with a built in switch? You may want to try one of those as well so you are not sending your current thru a switch... Good luck

Kirk
03-11-2005 Over year old.
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

tried one without a switch, same deal.
i hear you about the higher voltage on ATX - a friend of mine has the exact same setup on a Futaba system and reports its working flawlessly. BTW - how did you cure it in the Carden ?

im going to play with all this a bit more tommorow, but so far it appears that 2 parallel regulators is the only cure, unless someone else has a different idea ?

Team pilot for Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco, Gaui
www.liorzahavi.com
03-11-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

Battery failsafe on ATX PCM RX's is 3.6 volts. Battery failsafe on Futaba RX's is 3.8 volts per the 9C manual page 43.

TM
03-11-2005 Over year old.
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

This isnt it then, i got a 4.8V LED meter on the system,. and it never goes below the top green light during the whole thing. it seems to be that the amp draw is just too much for the regulator thats all...

would still love to hear from others running a similar system..

Team pilot for Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco, Gaui
www.liorzahavi.com
03-11-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
crcflyer14
Senior Heliman
Location: dallas

DO you have a whattmeter? I would like to know what your actually pulling with that set up. You could hook up a whatmeter and see if you busting the limits of the regulator, it will tell you how many amps your pulling, and if the regulator is really allowing the current it says. it tells you input voltage and amps pulled, as well as some more information, just a thought. If not you can pick one up for 40 bucks, with all your machines, it might be a good investiment, or a little piece of insurance.

Chad
03-11-2005 Over year old.
 
 
crcflyer14
Senior Heliman
Location: dallas

2s2p 4200mah RX pack, on 5.3 regulator(powerflight) I run koprop collective, with two 758 on cyclic, and a 9253 on throttle, and 601 gyro and have never seen anything over 3 amps on the meter and have tried my best to load the system with my hands, THESE SERVOS ARE CRAZY STRONG!!!!!!! I know it is not your set up, but similiar, I am currious about how the ccpm flys? and how much weight you lost doing it, (Don't let this hijack the thread)
03-11-2005 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

According to the Duralite website the regulator that comes with the heli package for a 90 is rated at 7.5 amps. I don't know if that is peak or continuous.

The 758's per Sanwa, draw 380 mah at idle. You only need three in the system. I frankly don't understand your resistance to getting a fast analog on throttle and losing just one 758. It won't make any difference in the air one way or the other. Getting rid of a single 758 may mean the difference in getting the system to work or not. At least try it until you can come up with a regulator that will handle the current draw. What have you go to lose at this point? Your present system isn't working.

TM
03-11-2005 Over year old.
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

TM, like i said - if i can, i would like to exploit all my options in making this work first, and im not done yet !

crcflyer14, i think im gonna have to make up a special connector for the meter that i got (its an electrician tool). i see no way around this too i guess.

i just checked again, and when i get the "freezes" the LEDs on the LED meter go down half way indicating a voltage drop from the regulator output (for the same half a second that the freeze takes).

is there a regulator out there rated for more then Duralite's 7.5A rating ?

Team pilot for Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco, Gaui
www.liorzahavi.com
03-11-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
kirk
Veteran
Location: Thornton, Colorado

I3DM

BTW - how did you cure it in the Carden ?

Switched it over to JR PCM Rx's...

Kirk
03-11-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Tyler
Key Veteran
Location: Chicagoland area

I am running the airtronics servos in my xspec and a 601. However, I am using a nondigital on throttle. I have no problems with my Duralite 4000 failsafe switch and battery system. I am guessing the throttle servo is taking you over the limit, plus the eccpm is demanding all three servos work all the time.


I just spoke with these folks on the phone yesterday, and their regulators look promising. Up to 9 amps continuous!!

http://www.fromeco.org/Shop/aRegulators.htm

However, they are working out some bugs for the heli community, and prefer not to sell their regulators to heli pilots until they release their new heli version in a month or so. It will be a dual output device that allows 6V regulation for the main servos and a seperate 4.8 v regulated output for the GY-601 gyro and servo (voltage sensitive). I am planning on waiting for their new release to hit the market before ordering my new battery gear.

Tyler
03-11-2005 Over year old.
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

Tyler that sounds interesting about the regulator.

you got a point about the CCPM, with TH HOLD on (throttle servo not moving) the problem would barely happen - but as soon as i let the throttle work (i.e. 4 servos moving with any pitch command) the problem would appear.

today i tried everything, swapped Rx's, regulators, packs, everything - and only 2 things finally did the trick :
1. tried a Nicd 5 cell 3000 Mah pack unregulated.
2. this is what i did after all -doubled everything and use 2 leads from the pack going to 2 regulators (with 2 switches), one to the B channel on the Rx and the other to CH8.

when both switches are on, the system appears to work flawlessly and the LED meter stays full all the time.
when either of the switches is off - the "freezing" (voltage drop) symptom appears immidiately, and it goes away immidiately as i turn on switch #2.
i also made a nice switch plate for switch #2 to go above switch #1 in the unused servo hole in the X-spec frame.

if anyone else still has some tips - they are always more then welcome !
thanks.

Team pilot for Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco, Gaui
www.liorzahavi.com
03-11-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

OK guys, a friend of mine had a suggestion - he said that the servos might be drawing lets say (just guessing) about 3.5 Amp when i wiggle the sticks (4 digital servos working together), and the Rx input for the B channel might be limited to lets say 3 Amps, and is causing the lock outs.

does anyone know whats the amp draw limit for 1 Rx socket (B in this case) on the ATX 8ch PCM Rx ?

thanks.

Team pilot for Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco, Gaui
www.liorzahavi.com
03-11-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
3 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2      3     NEXT    >> ]1711 viewsPOST REPLY
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Radio - Servo - Gyro - Gov - Batt > Problem using 94758Z servos on eCCPM - NEW FINDINGS!
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