RunRyder - Piro Flip - When are you ready?

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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Piro Flip - When are you ready?

ptarp
Veteran
Location: IL

This is not another "How do I do a Piro Flip?" post...
( Edit: Ok I lied, it's kinda turning into that

)

I can do low level aerobatics, and fly the heli in all four basic attitudes with relative precision (forward/backward, inverted:forward/backward),but a piro flip is simply way to fast for my coordination to keep up with to give inputs based on what is happening: ie. reacting to the heli instead of going through rehearsed motions.

So, my basic question is...

Is a piro flip a maneuver I just need to practice a million times to learn, or does it require complete mastery of heli coordination before it's attempted?

Philip

03-08-2005 Over year old.

TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

The short answer is; Yes!

Then don't do them so fast. No one is saying that you have to do them at Warp speed. Try them with the machine pirouetting slowly.

TM

03-08-2005 Over year old.

ptarp
Veteran
Location: IL

Well, that answers it then, I'm probably not ready, because it doesn't really matter how slow I try them. I can do something that looks like a piro flip, but I does not feel like I'm in control of the maneuver at all. Since you have to match the "stirring" motion to the rudder I'm pretty much going blind at this point. I'm not a horrible pilot, I have coordination skills beyond a newbie, but I guess the piro flip will have to wait a bit.

Here is a .wmv video I just made in G3 messing around so you get an idea of my skill level. I'll make a vid of me trying a piro flip and see if anyone can give me some pointers

I setup the G3 Raptor to handle very close to my R50 (throtttle/pitch curves and everything)

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...3Demo_ptarp.zip

Philip

03-08-2005 Over year old.

Rogue123
Key Veteran
Location: Phoenix AZ

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t163379p1/

03-08-2005 Over year old.

ptarp
Veteran
Location: IL

Rogue123:

I saw your post, but you don't mention anything about aileron inputs, is that correct?

Philip

03-08-2005 Over year old.

Cicolli
Senior Heliman
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Hi Philip,

Keep practicing and you will eventually get it. Faster piroflips are easier than slower ones due to the fact that the slower you do them the more control you need to keep the heli in one spot.
Keeping the piro rate constant was the biggest problem that I had when trying to learn this manoeuvre. I kept reducing the piro rate as i was doing the flip and this gave me alot of problems to start with.
I certainly dont think that you need complete mastery of the heli to do the piro flip. Every new trick is another notch in the belt and I dont think there is anyone who could say that they have mastered one of these things.
Paul.

03-08-2005 Over year old.

ptarp
Veteran
Location: IL

Thanks Cicolli

Here is a video of me attempting a piro flip a few times. As you can see I'm pretty much blindly doing the swirling motion while giving left rudder. It doesn't look too good! I guess I'll just keep practicing

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...ip_Attempts.zip

Philip

03-08-2005 Over year old.

rcheliflyer
Key Veteran
Location: calif., usa

Quote
Is a piro flip a maneuver I just need to practice a million times to learn, or does it require complete mastery of heli coordination before it's attempted?

I'm not the greatest at piroflips

,
and felt the same way you do when I first started doing them, it seems like they are out of control and all you can do is recover the heli bfore crashing.
And as tm mentioned not too fast either piro of flip rate, also make them a bit bigger and fly through them.
Try more than 1 piro while upright or inverted wait till the heli has a good entry attitude before flipping.
I think if you follow the basic technique of breaking up the manuver and learning each part then putting them together, you will eventually get it.

Keep at it man and practice high ,

03-08-2005 Over year old.

TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

Learn pirouettes in both directions both upright an inverted. This will help a lot.

TM

03-08-2005 Over year old.

Cicolli
Senior Heliman
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Hi Philip,
your piro rate is way too high and you need to slow down your stick stirring to match the piro rate. Also try to increase the amount of cyclic input that you are giving with the right stick (larger circles).
Set your piro rate to about one rev per second and lock the left stick to this position. Initiate the piro flip (when the nose is facing you or wherever you prefer) by increasing the collective(only a little) and giving forward cyclic. Stir the right stick making sure that you complete a proper circle without cutting any of the edges off. Once the cyclic stick is back to the starting position you should be inverted. The collective stick needs to be managed through the flip so that you are not heading towards the ground at this point but the collective movements will come with practice.
Dont worry about piroflipping back to the right way up as just getting the first flip is enough when you are starting out.
Try this and let me know if it has helped,
Paul.

03-08-2005 Over year old.

ptarp
Veteran
Location: IL

Cicolli:

So, at 360 deg/sec piro rate, about how many "stirring" motions should I complete by the time one piro has completed?

Philip

03-08-2005 Over year old.

Cicolli
Senior Heliman
Location: Perth, Western Australia

one stir for each piro

03-08-2005 Over year old.

Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

you're ready when it just happens...and you go "huh...there it is..."
you should be controlling the heli, not reacting to it.

squigle

03-08-2005 Over year old.

Rogue123
Key Veteran
Location: Phoenix AZ

@ptarp
Nope, just get the basic input. once it gets going you will start with aileron later. Just get the first part down. You need start simple. Sorry if the rest get pissed. but start with basics then move into the other part. learn the the feel of the manuver in its basic form. I hope that helps cuase it help me big time.

03-08-2005 Over year old.

Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

if you've got g2 you can watch a piro-flip recording that i made...it's somewhere in the maneuvres forum....

squigle

03-08-2005 Over year old.

ptarp
Veteran
Location: IL

I finally did a crappy one...

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/..._successful.zip

Its definatly not the prettiest, but at least its a a piro flip (sort of). It gets pretty wild at the end, but I'll work on fine-tuning it now that I have the basic motion down.

Rogue123:
You are right, simplifying the maneuver did help me get the rythm down and then I added aileron after that.

Cicolli:
Thanks a bunch man! Your tips really helped out. Your suggestion to lock in the gyro at 360deg/sec was crucial for it allowed me to just plant the rudder to the left and not worry about it

Philip

03-08-2005 Over year old.

Cicolli
Senior Heliman
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Looking good.
Just keep practising.

Paul.

03-08-2005 Over year old.

Rogue123
Key Veteran
Location: Phoenix AZ

Looking good, but go back to the simple move, and try to keep the basic move in one space. then add

03-08-2005 Over year old.

ptarp
Veteran
Location: IL

Rogue123:

Unless I'm using an ultra aerobatic model, if I only input Elevator, the heli never gets fully inverted and I don't have an opportunity to input negative collective to regain some altitude.

Philip

03-08-2005 Over year old.

Rogue123
Key Veteran
Location: Phoenix AZ

You dead on, you need to get the disk flat that is why youre heli is shooting Off to the side. You have the manuver but youre timing is off when the heli is inverted, you need to get flat, then push.

03-08-2005 Over year old.

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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Piro Flip - When are you ready?

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