RunRyder - Throttle and Pitch Curves

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e-Robbe Eolo > Throttle and Pitch Curves

Gianfrancesco
Heliman
Location: Viareggio, Italy

Can somebody give me their throttle and pitch curves (and blades pitch range). I am going mental over it and I don't seem to get anywhare... Thanks

02-27-2005 Over year old.

wink
Heliman
Location: Utrecht, Holland

Hi,

Nasty question as it depends on so many things..... but let's give it a try.

Throttle curves depend on your setup.....I make assumptions: you have a brushless setup with a esc with goverbor mode. Let's assume you have the brushless Kontronik combo (twist37 + jazz 40-6-18). Program your esc in heli mode (mode4). You can now depend on the 'governor' mode in your esc and you will need to program a lineair line: at all points the 'gas amount' is equal..... In my FF9 I have 5 points on 90%. This percentages depends on the headspeed you like to use and the batteries you're using............

Your Pitch curve depends on your skills and mechanical setup. Mechanical: In an ideal setup your heli has somewhere near 20% degrees of pitch which brings you to a -10 to +10 degrees pitch setup (this requires the 3D setup parts: mixer and lenghts of pushrods in the Pro and SE version, additional parts in the R22 and M8 version). You will have to program a line from 0 to 100% over the available points. Again, in my FF9 I have 0,25,50,75,100 programmed... But, your skill might require you to take away to high negative pitch..... In this case you will advise you to create the ideal mechanical setup but program a different pitch curve.... Please learn to hover on 3/4 stick to allow yourself to move to 3D in time....: you pitch settings will be something like: 35,42,50,75,100 (and you have -3 to +11 degrees of pitch)....

If you have the Pro or SE version you'll be able to create the ideal setup from the box. Please notice the different lengths of pushrods in your building manual!! If you have the R22 or M8 you will need to buy additional parts to create this ideal setup but it's not necessary to start. However, you will have to figure out your pitch settings.....

Regards, vincent

02-27-2005 Over year old.

Gianfrancesco
Heliman
Location: Viareggio, Italy

First of all, thanks a lot. Second: what % do you have for AIL, ELE and PIT? How much the swash plate must move fotward and aft and on the sides?

02-27-2005 Over year old.

SBK
Veteran
Location: NE Ohio

Hi, Gianfrancesco,

Just to add to Wink's post:

First, set the mechanical linkages in 3D way. Also make sure all your servo arms are at 90 degree when the Tx sticks are in mid postions. Then:

1. Turn the Tx on, then turn the Rx on.
2. Put both Tx sticks in mid postions.
3. Now, the swashplate should be level --- perpendicular to the mainshaft. If not, first adjust the mechanical linkages to level the swashplate.
4. Push the throttle/pitch stick all the way up (we use Mode 2 in the US, so this is the left stick for us. ) -- check to see if the swash plate is level at the top. If not, use "end points" to adjust the individual servos so the swashplate is level at the top.
5. Push the throttlle/pitch stick all the way down -- check to see if the swashplate is level. If not, use "end points" adjustment to level the swashplate.
--- now you swashplate is level all the way in its travel from the bottom to the top --
6. Put the throttle/pitch stick in the middle. Check the blades ptich -- it should be 0 degree. If not, adjust the linkage length to make it 0 degree.
7. Push the throttle/pitch stick to the top -- check to see what is the blade pitch. It should be +10 degrees. If not, do the following:
8. -- go to "swash ARF" menu in the Tx. In that menu, increase or decrease the "pit" so it gives you +10 degree at the top travel of the swashplate. "pit" in the "swash AFR" menu is to increase or decrease the travel of the swashplate, which then increase or decrease the blade "pit"ch.
-- now you've got the blade pitch range you want -- total of 20 degrees, from -10 to +10. Go back and make sure that the swashplate is level at bottom, mid and top positions. And check the blade at the mid position to get 0 degree pitch.
9. Go to "Swash AFR" menu again -- adjust the "ail" and "ele" to adjust the "tilt" of the swashplate, make sure they do not bind. You can alway adjust this to increase or decrease your cyclic pitch.

Now, you are done!

02-27-2005 Over year old.

Gianfrancesco
Heliman
Location: Viareggio, Italy

Thanks SBK. Could you give me the letghs of your pushrods and servo arm? I just can't get this right...

02-27-2005 Over year old.

SBK
Veteran
Location: NE Ohio

Well, I myself have not gone that far yet in the build. I intend to use the recommended length for 3D. The manual has the length shown in its diagrams.

May be others here can give you their numbers.

02-28-2005 Over year old.

Laurens
Key Veteran
Location: Oegstgeest, NL

Mine will be:

Throttle curve 0 25 50 75 100

Pitch curve -4 0 4 8 11 (not sure about the pitchcurve yet)

Now I just have to wait for the blade bolts

TeamFlightpower, Team Flighttech, BW Stratus, Trex 500

02-28-2005 Over year old.

dnam
Veteran
Location: Herndon, VA - USA

Info site

Go to http://www.raptortechnique.com/ it is a very good site for beginners! I suggest reading everything there. Some things might concernt nitro helis (mostly only the engine stuff) but all other techniques on how to set up your heli etc. are the same for nitro or electric heli.

I would also recommend you read http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275607 which is a good Electric Helicopter Beginner's guide on RC Groups.

I have not set up my Eolo totally yet but here is the throttle and pitch curve for my T-rex which should be prettty much the same as the one I'll be using for my Eolo Pro SE.

normal mode throttle is: 0-60-60
Idle up 1: 80-80-80
Idle up 2: 90-90-90

My pitch curves are linear 0-50-100 except for normal mode where the low point is 40%.

I could set more points on my radio but there is really no need.

Here is how I have my T-rex is set up. Turn your transmitter and Rx on. First put every pitch curve to be linear (0-50-100) and take out any subtrim you have set for your servos. Now move your pitch/throttle stick to the middle, 50% mark. Set the servos' subtrim so that they are totally centered. Try to use as little subtrim as possible, you can switch the servo arm around till it is very near centered and then use the subtrim. Once this is set look at your linkages and set them so everything is level or 90º. The flybar must be level, the blades need to be at 0º pitch, mixer arms need to be level as well as the washouts.

Oh yes, before you set the above you also want to make sure that you get full pitch travel. Push the pitch lever to full up 100% and adjust the pitch linkage boing to the servo arm so that there is no binding. (On the T-rex there is less travel for the swash to go downwards than up so you might have to set the low ATV point of the pitch channel to be less than 100%. I like it if everything is linear so I will set the high ATV to match this low point. So you might end up with 90% for low ATV and 90% for high ATV. This I think doesn't really apply to the Eolo as there is plenty of swash movement available.)

Set up like this you will have about +/- 10º which is a range of 20º with 50% corresponding to 0º pitch. Now it will be easy to set your curves to whatever pitch values you want. 100/20 = 5 so for every 5% you change on the pitch curve the the pitch will change 1º. As an example if you want -2º when the pitch stick is in the low position just set the curve value to be 40%, if you want -3º it would be 35%. 55% is +1º, 100% is +10º etc.

I hope this helps!
Nam

02-28-2005 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

SBK
Veteran
Location: NE Ohio

If you are on governor mode, the % on the throttle curve do not represent the real % of headspeed at the rotor head.

For instance, in my Logo 20, the max headspeed is 1700. To achieve that headspeed, using governor mode, I need only 63% on the throttle curve at the Tx. That means, 63% on my throttle curve equals to 100% headspeed (max HS).

If you use governor mode, you need to find out what % on your throttle curve gives you the max (100%) HS. And that particular % (63%, in my Logo 20) is what you would use as the top percentage on you throttle curve.

For instance, in my Logo 20, my throttle curve at Norm for spooling up is like 0, 0, 60, 60, 60, and in Idle 1 for hovering - 60, 60, 60, 60, 60; then Idle 2 for flying - 63, 63, 63, 63, 63.

I want to fly at 1700 headspeed which is max (100%) headspeed at the rotor head, and 63% on my throttle curve in the Tx gives me that, so I set that for Idle 2. For hovering, I want to have a headspeed of 1600, which is 94% of 1700 (Max HS). Since 63% on my throttle curve equals to Max HS of 1700, it would be 60% (94% of 63%) on my throttle curve to give me 1600 HS. So, I set Idle 1 for 60%.

So, in governor mode, first you need to find out what is the % on throttle curve that is equal to 100% headspeed. You can do this by spool up the heli, and gradually decrease the % on your throttle curve (in 7CH, dial down with the dial) until you hear the headspeed begin to slow down, then raise the % again until you hear the headspeed backs up to the max headspeed. That % is the % on the throttle curve that gives you the max (100%) headspeed at the rotor.

Hope this is not too confusing.

SBK

P.S. -- In Non-governor, or normal, mode, yes, 100% on the throttle curve means 100% of headspeed, 80% on the throttle curve means 80% of the headspeed. But then you need to come up with a throttle curve that would maintain your headspeeds at different pitches.

02-28-2005 Over year old.

Gianfrancesco
Heliman
Location: Viareggio, Italy

And the switch to change the pitch curve is the same as you told me the other day to change the gyro sensitivity?

02-28-2005 Over year old.

SBK
Veteran
Location: NE Ohio

You can either assign another switch for gyro or use same switch E for both gyro and idle-up's. However, I would suggest assign another switch for gyro as a beginner.

The other switches (A, B, D. or G) are two position (UP/DN) switches. You can setup both positions for HH mode, or UP for HH and DN for Norm. The latter would allow you to go into Norm mode for trimming the tail (GY401 manual has detail descriptions about how to trim the tail).

Go to "GYRO" menus, go to second page, select "A" for "SW". Now you are using switch A for Gyro functions. In the same page, turn the "GYRO" ON.
Go back to page one. Now you see two positions only-- UP and DN. Select UP and see whether it is in 'N' or 'A'. If it is in 'N', turn the dial clockwise. You will see that the % number will go down to 0 then back up again. When it passes 0, 'N' will become 'A' (=AVCS) -- now you are in HH mode. Select 50% sensitivity to begin with, then adjust it as needed.

The "DN" position does the same thing. You can set it at 'N' and 50% --- meaning in Normal mode (non-HH) at 50% sensitivity.

I would suggest that you use switch A, or B, D, G for GYRO, not to mix with Idle-up's in Switch E (Idle-up switch is not assignable, always Switch E with three positions).

Keep switch A (or B, D, G ) at UP position, so you are flying in HH mode all the time, regardless of which Idle-up you are in. I just don't see why anyone should fly in non-HH mode anymore.

You can also make both UP and DN positions in "A" - HH mode, so if you accidently bump the switch from UP to DN during a flight, you will still be in HH mode and not go into non-HH mode accidently.

Hope this helps.

SBK

P.S. - if you use switch E for both Idle-up's and Gyro, when you change the positions of switch E, you will change both Idle-up's and Gyro settings. Of course, you can set all GYRO functions the same in all three positions, then you'll have the sam GYRO functions while changing the Idle-up's.

03-01-2005 Over year old.

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e-Robbe Eolo > Throttle and Pitch Curves

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