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Futaba-RC . Next D . Fast Lad Performance

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Avant Aurora - EFX - FX > Avant eccpm compared to Fury eccpm
 
 
Tyler
Key Veteran
Location: Chicagoland area

I had a Fury with JR 8311 servos, then switched to Futaba 9252's. No matter how much I worked on the mechanics, geometry, subrtrims, mixing, etc. I could never eliminate the eccpm interaction. I could get it to improve for a while, but was never satisfied with results.

I sold the fury for a major loss and bought a Freya. Much better. Then I moved up to the xspec, which I still fly.

I am interested in the AVANT, but I don't want to revisit the interaction issues. Is it possible that some helis have more eccpm interaction than others, or is there a simple rule that all eccpm machines WILL have the dreaded interaction?

I miss the collective power and response of the Fury, but enjoy the mechanical set up of the xspec.

I have never flown a Vigor CS, Vibe, Predator, or other eccpm 60-90 machine to have a personal comparison.

What is the skinny on the Avant eccpm interaction tendencies?

Tyler
02-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
I3DM
rrProfessor
Location: Israel

Hey Tyler,
strap one of those KO Propo 2123 servos on your collective and check out the performance difference before you go to eCCPM..

Team pilot for RJX, Radix, Helidirect, Logictech, ThunderPower, Fromeco
www.liorzahavi.com
02-09-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
carcrasher
Key Veteran
Location: east coast

What radio are you using? yes the fury does have some interaction issues. How matched were your servos on the Fury? Were they about the same age? did they all have the same use? Were they used? if so, what were they used on before and how? I believe Augusto worked out as much of the interaction out as possible. Do as I3DM said get a ko 2123 and be done with it. What type of batteries are you using? the 2123 needs 7.2v's to work right.
02-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Tyler
Key Veteran
Location: Chicagoland area

I am currently using the Airtronics servos that Alan Szabo uses: 115 oz torque and .08 seconds, I believe.

I started with brand new JR 4735 servos for the fury. I then was told I would never get rid of the interaction without digital servos. I spent the money to buy three brand new JR 8311's. I then bought three brand new Futaba 9252's. I never noticed any improvements. I was using a JR 8103 with 649 pcm receiver.

Who can offer a first hand account of the interaction comparison between the fury and Avant? Agusto, where are you??????? Surely some others have been flying the Avant by now.


Tyler
02-09-2005 Over year old.
 
 
blakka_1
Elite Veteran
Location: Northampton

Quote 
JR 8103


Not the greatest radio for eccpm, maybe the 8103's older technology and processing power contributed to your problem.

I dont know, but its just a thought.

I mean its a known fact that with fast stick inputs the 9chp's interaction problems become worse - due to processing power.

The 9z doesnt have this problem.

Just a thought.
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

Quote 
Agusto, where are you???????


There is a big difference that I can explain but I'm currently busy at work.
I'll post the explanation later.

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Tyler
Key Veteran
Location: Chicagoland area

I don't buy the radio excuse. I flew with several other pilots running the JR 10x, Futaba 9C, and even the flagship and mother of all eccpm radios, the 9zwC2. They all still reported interaction problems, that is of course except for the Miniature Aircraft field reps, they never admitted to the interaction no matter what radios they used. I spoke with one rep that denied the interaction until he dropped that product line for another brand. He was then VERY willing to admit to the interaction, and I know he used three top of the line radios from the three top vendors during that period.

The question still stands, is the interaction I experienced to be expected with every eccpm, or does it tend to be a Fury issue?

Tyler
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

The fury has an issue with the back elevator swashplate to arm link being shorter than the pitch and aileron's so when all the arms move upwards or downwards the back link pivots more then the othe two making the total travel of the elevator less than the other two. That's why you need to make that ATV 103-107% when the other two are at 100.

In the case of the Avant you have same length rods so that doesn't exist. More importantly having all three arms with a common center of rotation the nonlinearities of a front arm are canceled by the same but opposite non-linearities of the back arm.

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Tyler
Key Veteran
Location: Chicagoland area

Hi Augusto,

I recall the geometry problem of the fury. Can't tell you how many times I tried to recalibrate it!!

I thought the new Tempest machines where suppose to resolve some of the interaction problems, but have been told it didn't eliminate them.

Can you truly feel a difference in the air when comparing the Avant to the fury line of helis?

Will I be just as happy with your eccpm mechanics as I am with the current Xspec mechanical setup?

Tyler
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Garry-Boy
Key Veteran
Location: Moscow, Russia

Augusto,
On this picture your swash plate have some angle is that OK or there is something more about this....


Garry.
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
carcrasher
Key Veteran
Location: east coast

the heli is probably off.
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

Yes that's the secret 007 swashplate position for when the heli is turned off

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

Tyler,

The Avant has a lot more pitch pumping power than the fury. That's why I strongly recomend not wasting battery juice in servos faster than a 9255. Ray didn't pay attention to that and now he realized it's a total overkill to use faster servos so he's switching to the regular fast digitals like the 9255 equivalents.

There are 4 different ways to build the head so you can taylor it to any response you like. From full stickbanging madness to nice and easy response.

Correct CCPM setup is still required but as Evan can tell you, he and I were on the phone and I explained to him how to do a correct CCPM setup and at the end of the conversation the sawshplate was moving perfect.

You do need to start with a CCPM system that has the correct geometry or no setup will be able to fix it though.

I also taught Ray somet time ago how to do a correct CCPM setup and when he went to the field he could do perfect climbouts and fast descents in a perfect stright line up and down. He would do a forward flip takeoff and the heli would be perfectly stright and level at the other end. That's one of the things that a correct setup will give you but if you had a shorter rod like the Fury does then no matter what you do it will always have an area of the cyclic pitch where the elevator will be off compared to the other two so there is simply no real perfect solution to the Fury elevator issue.

I am working on inlcuding the CCPM radio setup guide into the manual. I think it will save me a lot of time answering setup questions.

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Ray Nemovi
Veteran
Location: SAN DIEGO CA

I have the avant, and I had a few furys and a tempest before. I had have a x spec with mechanical collective and EX with ccpm.

there is a problem with the ma line concerning ccmp interactions.

the freya line does not have that problem as Augusto explained.

to answer your question.....You will be very happy with the ccpm on the avant.
Same goes for the ccpm upgrade on the x-spec as well since the systems are similar.

the ccpm does not have interactions and in the case of the avant the head mods make it behave as a very powerful machine as far as collective is concerned.

Ray N.
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
carcrasher
Key Veteran
Location: east coast

Augusto
If my manual doesn't have the set up guide will it be available for download in the near future(say a month). Whats up with the vids? My Avant should be here soon along with the electronics to build it. I want to see a full blown-all out 3d session w/ the Avant. Something to get me hyped up.
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

I had interaction problems with my Tempest. It was as plain as friggin day.

Now I have a Sylphide and as the servos are getting more and more used, I can see it in that too.

I'm really starting to wish that more of the top F3C machines were just mechanical mixing. The only one is the Eagle 3 .

Si

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Simon Lockington
02-10-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
bigglesbutler
Veteran
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland

I got an Eagle 3, and DAMN she is nice. There is just NO interaction PERIOD. But then the price tag kinda makes it an arse to get :P

Sorry I know that doesnt help but im too happy not to show off about my new heli :P

Si

Si
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

Yeah yeah yeah I know

I played with one for an afternoon, if it wasn't a limited production model, I might have got one.

Si

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Simon Lockington
02-10-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

Quote 
On this picture your swash plate have some angle is that OK or there is something more about this....

look at the blades mate...there is left cyclic in them....

squigle
02-10-2005 Over year old.
 
 
greger
Senior Heliman
Location: vancouver, WA

Quote 
The question still stands, is the interaction I experienced to be expected with every eccpm, or does it tend to be a Fury issue?


You will tend to have problems with all eccpm over time as servos wear etc.. I had 2 furys and now fly an x-spec (which I tried with eccpm and took off). No interaction and smooooth as silk.
02-17-2005 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Esprit Model . Thunder Power RC . Real Raptors

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Avant Aurora - EFX - FX > Avant eccpm compared to Fury eccpm
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