RunRyder - Hawk IV won't start

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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > Hawk IV won't start - help!

Fuj
Senior Heliman
Location: Fairfield, CA

I had this running in the engine area and thought I'd try here.

I just got my Hawk IV finished and running! The guy at my shop tuned it up for me after I finished building it and he set up my radio with me. He even hovered it - so I know it flies! Tonight I went to start it and it started and after a few seconds it died. I went to start it again and I heard a little bit of a grinding noise and now it wont turn over. This has obviously scared me into thinking I screwed up. I cannot engage the starter and turn it with my hand - I don't know if I could ever do this though. The starter just wont turn it - it's too "hard" to turn for lack of a better word. I can spin the rotors - I opened it up (canopy) and didn't see anything unusual - however I am not sure what I am looking for exactly. Any ideas? I need to know what I am looking for to see what is wrong - could I have stripped something or screwed up some gears somehow? I am obviously very new.

After some advice about hyrdrolocking, I removed the glow plug and tried turning it over. Nada. It still won't start. It won't turn at all. I put in the starter and when I hit the button nothing happens - it's too "tight" and won't turn over. I'm curious if there is something else I should be doing when removing the glow plug and then trying to start it. There is no fuel coming out of the area where the glow plug was either so if it was flooded and that's where the fuel would be then it's not coming from there.

If I have to get to the engine to remove it and check it is there an easy way to do it? I would hate taking it apart finding out I only had to do something simple to remove the engine. Plus I don't want to have to reset everything if I can avoid it.

Thanks!
Dan

07-04-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

gforce
Veteran
Location: Jacksonville FL

If you can get your fingers up under the fan and spin the fan (with plug removed) then you know the lock up is above the fan and clutch. If it will not budge at all, sounds like the clutch or engine is locked up internally. That would require removing the engine and taking it apart to see what the problem is.

07-04-2002 Over year old.

rob_jones
Key Veteran
Location: Oglethorpe, GA

Could be a broken clutch. Can you turn the gears? If not than it is likely the clutch.

-----
Team MRC Hirobo
I reject your reality and substitute my own.

07-05-2002 Over year old.

Pitt
Heliman
Location: Palo Alto, CA

I bet the engine nut came off! Did you use a Piston Lock?

07-05-2002 Over year old.

Fuj
Senior Heliman
Location: Fairfield, CA

Thanks everyone for your help and inputs. I removed the engine - thanks, Nick - and found that yes indeed the engine nut was loose - in fact it was sitting there completely off.

I did not use a piston lock but it's on there tight now - hope that will work.

She's all back together and will try her out in the morning.

Thanks again!
Dan

07-05-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

bhelisN6
Heliman
Location: Fremont, California

Hello Fuji,

Sounds like the engine nut has loosen off as stated in an earlier post. Remove the engine mount bolts, the four bolts that attach the cooling fan shroud in place and slide the front landing gear backwards past the engine area. Remove the middle and lower self tapping screws that secure the cooling fan shroud together.

Remove the muffler and the needle valve.

Now drop the engine with the mount downwards and disengage the cooling shroud from the upper sideframes. You need to push out the bottom of the engine rearwards to get the clutch/fan assembly away from the counter gear. Now flex the bottom of the cooling fan shroud to clear the engine head and drop the engine out the bottom.

Here's my method to attach the clutch/fan assembly:

1. Remove everything from the crankshaft and clean the threads (the crankshaft, the clutch and the engine nut with rubbing alcohol) until zero black residue can be seen when wiping with a cloth.

2. Replace the M9x14 flat washer against the front ball bearing in the engine. Press the clutch shoe into the clutch bell.

3. Using a piston lock or remove the backplate and insert a toothbrush between the connecting rod and the crankcase.

4. Apply a good amount of blue threadlock to the last 6mm of thread closest to the ball bearing ( do not get any inside the ball bearing). Similarly apply threadlock to the threads of the clutch. Press the plastic fan into the slot in the clutch and thread the clutch assembly onto the crankshaft of the engine. Once the clutch assembly stops, take a rag and wrap around the fan and tighten the assembly as much as possible without breaking the fins on the fan.

5. Insert the M5x13 flat washer, and apply a liberal amount of blue locktight to the engine nut. Thread it down and using the 10mm socket on the glow plug wrench, tighten until it stops and torque an additional 1/8th of a turn.

6. Let dry overnight.

This will work everytime if followed religiously. One more thing, as you are new to the hobby, you have to be extra careful when starting the engine to avoid hydra-locking the engine (too much fuel in the engine).

Andrew

07-05-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

jimmyhua
Veteran
Location: Guam

Hi Fuj,

The important thing is to make it so the crank won't spin, either by jamming a toothbrush in the backplate area or with a piston lock.

Then you can simply take the nut off, and then unscrew the whole fan/clutch/clutch bell assembly in one piece.

Now, you can reverse it. assemble fan + clutch + clutch bell together in one piece, and then simply screw it onto the engine. Once you screw that in as tight as possible, top it off with the washer and nut.

If you plan to use thread lock. Make sure you are careful and not get any of that threadlock stuff into any of the bearings.

I haven't had to use threadlock except for the first put together.... (Ruined the bearings with threadlock, replaced bearings, didn't put threadlock the 2nd time, and haven't had a loose fan problem yet).

07-05-2002 Over year old.

ncostes
Veteran
Location: US

Goodness Andrew, that's a horrible way to take out the engine

though it matches the manual much more closely than my method.

Perhaps you could suggest century incorporate the method I indicated into their manual - i was really frustrated at having to go to all that trouble to remove the engine, until I figured out this way of doing it.

Maybe someone has an even better way...

Seems to have worked for Fuj as well

This way requires only the 4 engine mount bolts, 2 cap screws and 2 self threading screws.

I lost count with the # of screws and bolts (not to mention the set screws in the landing gear for sliding the skids back)

As usual though, thanks for the quick reply, and the good info.

nick

07-06-2002 Over year old.

edg
Senior Heliman
Location: San Francisco, CA

I recently had a similar problem with my new Century Schweizer 300C and new OS 32. When I got to the field, I blipped it with the starter, it briefly caught then died. Thereafter it locked up. Nothing would turn it over. It would get near the full compression point and not move any further when turned in either direction. I was able to remove the plug and backplate at the field, but still had the same problem and nothing looked bad in the engine from the backplate view.

Bit the bullet and took out the engine (the Hawk is a pain from an engine removal standpoint). I removed the header -- easy to do with just 6 screws. Lo and behold, there were 3 to 4 good sized (1-2mm) chunks of metal sitting on top of the cylinder head preventing it from compressing all the way.

It was debris from the manufacturing process. My guess is that the chunks were sitting up a bit inside the glowplug hole and after starting they jostled loose onto the top of the cylinder. Cleaned em out and it ran like a charm.

I always take the backplate off of a new engine, oil it, and turn it around by hand for a bit. But usually don't take the head off. Lesson learned: always take the head off and inspect a new engine. You may have run into the same problem....

-edg-

07-08-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

ncostes
Veteran
Location: US

Hey Edg,
It's only 8 screws total to remove the engine from the hawk if you use my method above

No need to remove skids/needles etc.

07-08-2002 Over year old.

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Century Hawk - Falcon - Raven - Predator > Hawk IV won't start - help!

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