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HeliHobby . Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter

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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Tricks to help with 3D flying...?
 
 
Parsifal
Veteran
Location: Singapore

Do you guys have any 'mind tricks' for lack of a better phrase, to help you out with rythm during 3d manouvers? I mean, looking at the pros fly, i can't can't can't get around how quickly their minds must be working. I was wondering what if any shortcuts there may be to take away some of the mental stress away from the pilot.

Indy
06-20-2002 Over year old.
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spot
Heliman
Location: Houston, TX

Practice, practice, practice is just as easy as hovering after you break taht point
06-28-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

You need to learn the use of the force from watching and talking to some of the Jedi such as Todd B, Curtis Y, Jason K, Alan S etc.

I'm sure those guys use some kinda force to help them!

Si

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Simon Lockington
06-28-2002 Over year old.
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heliman41
Key Veteran
Location: Valparaiso IN. USA

A hi IQ and super fast wits and reflexes dosent hurt either!
06-28-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Parsifal
Veteran
Location: Singapore

Hehehe...ok...perhaps "mind tricks" was not the best of phrases ...anyway, practice is all fine and good but jeez, this backwards flying lark is TOOOOOuuuggghhh.

All the best..

Indy
06-28-2002 Over year old.
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freestyle
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA USA

mostly practice

You can think that fast too - mostly it just takes practice. As a novice, you see a sequence of distinct orientation changes, but with practice you start to see the combinations, not just the individual control inputs that make up the combination.

Here's a simple example: from FFF, (1) pull back til the heli is going straight up, then (2) yaw 180 degrees, then (3) pull back until the heli is level again. We all know that's a stall turn, and after you've done a few, you don't have to look at it as a sequence of three separate control inputs.

The same kind of thing applies to more advanced flying - the more you practice, the more you think of one familiar pattern after another, instead of disjointed sequences of arbitrary orientation changes.

If you play a musical instrument you've probably seen the same thing there. I know I went through it with guitar, where at first I could not imagine how certain pieces of music could be played or memorized, but with practice I was seeing patterns (or "phrases") instead of individual notes, and it's far easier to think through a few dozen phrases than to think through a few thousand notes.

For specific maneuvers and situations, there are 'tricks' that will help. For nose-in hovering, make aileron corrections by pushing toward the low side of the rotor disc. With constant-pirouetting hovering/travelilng stuff, I make a lot of corrections with the elevator based on the angle of the tail boom when the heli is side-on. I dunno why, but when I started connecting the boom angle to elevator corrections, things got easier for me. For rolling circles, steer your way around by elevator inputs while the heli is knife-edge. For piro flips, you have to synchronize the cyclic "stirring" motion with the piro rate. For extended knife-edge passes, come in with barely more than hovering collective and slow forward flight, and 'bump' the collective to full to get a little extra 'lift' just before going knife-edge... etc, etc, etc.

Does anyone have any good hints like that for funnels? When you're learning, how do you straighten them out if they get lopsided? What do you look for, and what corrections do you make, if you want to move from stage left to stage right, or vice versa? (I'm horrible with funnels, I need all the help I can get!)
06-28-2002 Over year old.
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RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

My understanding with funnels is that you adjust the tail rotor to gain and lose altitude. I don't exactly how it works, but it just does and I can't remember which way to go. Well, I don't exactly know how to tell you without blades spinning in front of my face and a controller in my hand

Chris
Rex 500 A123 Power

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
06-28-2002 Over year old.
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Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

You adjust collective to gain/lose altitude, the amount of rudder you use depends on how much elevator you have on.

Si

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Simon Lockington
06-28-2002 Over year old.
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RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Believe me, I've done funnels and didn't change anything else than tail rotor pitch and the heli gained and lost altitude. I didn't even move the collective. Only way I think that works is that it just changed the angle the heli is and it effect the amount of lift the heli is producing to keep it in the air at that angle.

Adding power coupled with more aileron seemed to tighten the tornado/funnel a little more.

Chris
Rex 500 A123 Power

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
06-28-2002 Over year old.
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Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

But if you were doing a continuous funnel that stayed in the same position at the same altitude and all you did was change rudder, wouldn't the heli 'kick out'? Wouldn't you also have to move the elevator to keep the heli flying in the same position at the same altitude? Whenever I move the rudder on this, the heli 'breaks out' of it's funnel unless I compensate with appropriate amounts of elevator?

Like you said, changing the rudder has increased/decreased altitude for you, I just wonder why because the rudder itself is not actually producing any vertical lift. Could it be that one way is requiring more power (decreasing altitude) and the other is releasing more power (increasing altitude)?

I've always used the collective to gain/lose altitude. Like you say, it can make the funnels tighter if you use too much though.

Si

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Simon Lockington
06-28-2002 Over year old.
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RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

The amount of rudder I used is very very little. I know if I add too much rudder it does sort of kick out and start wobbling and looks bad. Maybe I'm doing other things subconciously just to keep the heli in the air. My next flying session I will get out there and try to analyze it.

Chris
Rex 500 A123 Power

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
06-28-2002 Over year old.
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freestyle
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA USA

When you see the underside of the disk you can steer the tailboom L &R directly with the rudder stick(there's no need to think in terms of anti-rotation relative to the rudder stick),when it comes round to the top view of the disk switch to the nose for short periods for the rudder corrections.

Just remember up cyclic always lifts the tail upwards towards the centre [...]

Thanks, that's exactly the kind of stuff I had in mind when I asked. There's different ways to look at each control, but it's helpful to know shortcuts like those for specific maneuvers... I can't wait to get out and experiment with funnels some more now.
06-29-2002 Over year old.
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Tday
Key Veteran
Location: Needham, MA

<
I think funnels can be thought of more simply than what I'm seeing on the board here, so I'll put this out---might be helpful. Funnels are simply extensions of sideways flying. If you practice on the sim and fly sideways--you're doing what's needed. The rudder is simply used to hold the tail boom at a 90 deg to the direction of travel--when doing tail down, rudder required is very little, nose down requires more--tight funnel has less to keep the tail at a 90--wide has more. If you were to do ff in a circle--you know what's involved. So, rotate the tail 90-up or down--and have at it with the aileron to hold the circle rate, use elevator to get steeper/shallower, use collective to control height, simply use rudder to keep the tail "straight". As you shallow out the funnel, you'd need more rudder-------on it goes.

Trying to correct a funnel that's started badly is really important, imo, to really knowing how to do them. And with the mindset I've described--it doesn't matter if the winds are blowing--simply manage it like any other turn.

Tom
07-01-2002 Over year old.
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RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Extensions of sideways flight, eh? I never even thought of it as that, very cool! Thanks!

Chris
Rex 500 A123 Power

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
07-01-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Aerobatic 3D Contest > Tricks to help with 3D flying...?
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