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Kyosho Caliber 30 & 60 - Concept - Nexus > Caliber 60 cooling problem
 
 
Caliber-1
Heliman
Location: Kyosho heaven

I recently just got my C60 tuned in an humpin the sky. One problem.....no air coming off the fan. It only goes in one way and the belt does not cross. This was an original kit prior to the updated gear / boss separatin due to stress cracking. So maybe their is an update for the fan. But its doubt full , as for the gear there is no longer a part # for my older 1 piece gear and only the new gear is available. As for the fan and belt , I checked towers reference to part #'s and they are the same , wich tells me there are no new updates. Very strange as for not many own this machine due to its high price , so I may be in the dark. I can say that this kit has been on a shelf probably since they first came out in early 99 and never touched. So maybe the belt is not as tight as it was originaly was. But I do not know. Can any with knoledge of this machine discuss this furter with me? It is one quick precise beast for what little glimpse I got of it until the engine overheated.


Gary.
06-10-2002 Over year old.
 
 
GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

Not an expert

I do not have a Caliber but have flown Wayne Mann's with a YS 61ST2 and 30% Cool Power. The motor never gave any indication of overheating and ran very strongly. If using 15%, try switching to 30% and running a bit richer. Hydraulic cooling is better than pneumatic.

On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
06-10-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Caliber-1
Heliman
Location: Kyosho heaven

No expenses spared I have always ran and do run 30% in this helicopter. I even went and got a smaller O-ring to see if the original was slipping and it was not. Taking the shroud off I felt so little air i could barely notice it. It is set to a very rich mixture and overheats at idle due to no cooling. If you think a picture will help you understand the setup or you would like to inspect closer, send me a mail at gshaffer@adelphia.net. And I will send you pics of it I have already sent to Dwight Schilling. I need all input. Must get this resolved or this will be a 3000 dollar piece of art on the wall.


Thanks , Gary
06-11-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Hi,

Did you check the fan O ring slip on the pulleys? and also the bearings on the fan pulley? Is there any shims in the engine mount? If yes, the tension on the O ring may be changed. I replace the old ring once it hit the carb during idling (OS61WC).

Mine flies great without any cooling problem with a five blades fan but I don't think the difference is that much.

On the main gear, I has been flying with the old type without any problem. Rather, I would suggest you to check the spindle shaft if it is of old type for safety reason. You can refer to the Kyosho web site as below:
http://www.kyosho.co.jp/models/heli.../heli_news.html

Happy rotoring

Chris
06-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Caliber-1
Heliman
Location: Kyosho heaven

Chris ,

I thank you for the input...however I have been over up and down this machine a million times. Today at the field I melted 3 OS 8 glow plugs due to the engine overheating. The engine siezed once due to overheating. We had the High and mid on the OS 61 open 4 1/2 turns each. Still , it would overheat. It all comes down to No air. The fan produces no aair I tell you. I even went to the local hardware store to get an O-ring 3/4 the size just to make sure it was not slipping. Still , no air. I then took the shroud off and took the whole head off the Heli to rev up to a decent Rpm . No air! None! Last resort....remove the fan and installed it on a dremmel tool and spun a whoping 10000 rmp. Can you guess....Thaats right....No air. I am baffled , Dwight Shilling I have been e-mailing , and he too is stunned. I wish those of you who own this machine could look at it on the field and see what I am seeing. Me and my friends have been over this 1001 times to no advancement. No progress. Nothing. Its almost like its taboo'ed .

Keeping this in mind when you make an evaluation...this kit sat on a shelf in japan since its release in late 98 early 99. I know because 1 the owner told me and two the main gear was still the single type you say you are using. It was cracked when i opened the box. Still awaiting its replacement after I could not wait I purchased the update gear from tower for 120.00. Only to get it ready and find there is a mojor cooling issue with the fan design. I don't know whats going on at this point. I am discouraged , distressed , and getting annoyed. Everyone claims to not have a problem , but its clearly there on mine. Dwight Shilling too uses the Caliber 50 fan and claims there is no difference.

By the way , the link did not work for me, but I would appriciate any further input you or anyone else who has not yet helped too do so. I am in a hole with no near escape. I really need to see one up close that runs fine and has a good fan unit to understand the total picture here.


Gary.
06-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Gary

Looks to me that you've pinpointed the problem - the fan. I think the only alternative is to replace it to avoid torturing the engine any further. The cheaper alternative is the one in Caliber 50. It is a five blades plastic fans and it costs 1500 yen according to Kyosho's data sheet. Both fans in C60 and C50 uses the same bearing so I guess it will fit.

The other one is a metal five blades fan but I don't know the part no.

I can post some photos of my C60's if you want.

Hope this help.

Chris
06-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Caliber-1
Heliman
Location: Kyosho heaven

Well appriciated advice. However, I am very annoyed of the fact that I spent over 2 g's for this heli and its not mechanically proven. Poor oversight on Kyosho's behalf. They make a whole bunch of fancy parts to get your eyes real big only to let you down with a design flaw. Once again the question of why they sell very little helis is answered. I don't know. Maybe its just machined wrong or something , but I doubt it. Even if it was thats another point about their efforts to produce quality products. They are none.
06-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

I find it severely hard to believe that Kyosho would have produced the Caliber with a crap fan. You would have thought this would have come to light during testing. Are you sure you're not spinning the fan the wrong way while you're testing it? Some fans are directional and will push air in to their center rather than out. However most fans that I see now are unidirectional, so this will not count.

Si

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Simon Lockington
06-12-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Caliber-1
Heliman
Location: Kyosho heaven

Obviously you have never seen a Caliber up close or you would understand that it can only be installed one way. It is very simple and basic kit. Like I said. I tested the fan on a high speed motor and it produced no results. Why I am the only one to come across this problem? I dont know. We had the head and mechanics off yesterday......spun it up to 1500 RPM using the governor as careful not to over drive the free mast. I felt nothing coming from that fan. Not even a little breeze. I got 1 objective for this kit , to either get this resolved or to expose them on a poor product the have made.
06-12-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Secret Squirrel
Key Veteran
Location: New Zealander living in Melbourne, Australia

I have seen a Caliber up close. A friend of mine flies one and has never spoke of this problem. Contact him on f3cfunfly@hotmail.com if you wish to.

Si

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Simon Lockington
06-12-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

It is a pity that a good design is ruined by a manufacturing flaw. Anyway, I think this problem can be solved by replacing the fan.

However, as in my previous email, please check the spindle shaft. Since your machine came from the early batches of production, the spindle shaft would very likely to be of old type. Replace it with a new type if it is. After all, the machine worth nothing as compare to your personal and/or your fellow flyers' safety.

Cheers.

Chris

06-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Caliber-1
Heliman
Location: Kyosho heaven

Chris , on regards to the spindle , you mean the feathering shaft that holds the grips on? What was the problem with the old one?

As for the fan , it has no visible flaws in machining or defects. It looks as if should produce a lot of air but it does not. How this is I am not exactly sure. I will be seeking expert advice and looking into the physical properties of the matter. I will get to the bottom of it. The 5 minutes of flight I got were enough to tell me what this impressive machine will do.

The only was doebt I had was that I had both needle valves open 4 1/2 turns and it still climbed with power. Why? Easily figured out that the head was so hot it was burning all fuel consistantly. Good heli guys have a lot to teach and share amongst each other and new comers who want advice. This machine is only sought after by veteran and top notch pilots due to its price tag. In my opinion if I could get the fan woked out , it would be worth it to me. I only wish you and others lived closer to help me personally.


Thanks for the advise ,

Gary
06-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Yes, i am referring to the feathering spindle. The old type is more prone to break due to fatique failure. Try the link below:
http://www.kyosho.co.jp/models/heli.../heli_news.html

It sounds weird as your chopper is flyable at 4 1/2 needle setting. I guess there may be blockage somewhere along the fuel line. A restriction of fuel flow into the engine may lean it and overheat it as a result. My OS61 WC have 1 1/2 turn on high and 1 turn on middle.

Cheers.

Chris
06-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Safe_Cracker
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago, IL

1 turn on middle is still high!

06-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Caliber-1
Heliman
Location: Kyosho heaven

No , think of it like this. That head is so hot , all fuel is burned at the temp its at. I am sure its the fan now. As for that spindle....yow! I cant read japaneese but buy the pictures , thats scary. How many failures have there been? Lots? Can you refer the right part # to me?

Thanks , Gary
06-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

They put an A in the part no for the new type spindle, i.e. CA5004A.

Don't know about the number of the failure but it is a cheap insurance to replace with the new one, isn't it.

Cheers.

Chris
06-14-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Caliber
Heliman
Location: Independence Ia

What's your low needle setting at?
How much time is on this engine? It sounds like you have a air leak, is the carb sealed tight to crankcase? Is the front bearing shot, letting air past? O rings snug on the needle valves?
I'm sure Dwight probly ask you, did you cut vents in the canopy?
I ve been running mine w/ a YS STII for the past year without any over heating problems. When mine's idling I can feel air being move below the engine.
06-14-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Caliber-1
Heliman
Location: Kyosho heaven

FIXED!!!!!

All credit goes to Todd Dudek!!! He fixed it right! Simple fix , but something I had no idea. 90 degree throttle was not linear.

I did not know this needed to be. I did not know that throttle markings were on the carb. I simply did not know. Even knowing things far more complex , it prooves the simple thing still can bite you every time.


One thing that would help it have been seriously overlooked was the fan. Even though at high speed there must be air coming from it because hovering is cooler than idle , it must not need this unit very much at all. So it is true. Wayne Mann is flying without a fan unit. I must say....its a slik flyin machine too. Ultra sssssmmmmooooottthhhh!

Now the only thing left to do is update the counter pulley , one way bearing , and spindle... Mainly the spindle...


Thanks for everyones input. Some of you were right on the money.


Gary.
06-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
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Kyosho Caliber 30 & 60 - Concept - Nexus > Caliber 60 cooling problem
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