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e-Miniature Aircraft Furion - Razor - Ion-X > Are you pleased with your Ion?
 
 
lawrenmd
Senior Heliman
Location: Orlando FL.

I am seriously considering a new Ion and moving to all electric. I would like some feed back from current owners. I have a Logo 10 (brushless li-po) and it is a real blast with no mess or trying to keep enough fuel around. I think the Ion would suite me because I love my Fury, but where I live no one stocks cool power fuels. I'm tired of driving 35 minutes to buy fuel if I want to fly or paying $80 to buy a case. Any feedback on the Ion would be appreciated.

Dave
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
ekripper
Heliman
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

Get One!!

Dave,
You will definetly be happy with an Ion! I sold both my Fury and my Tempest and now have two Ion's. I think they fly even better than those two machines. I have gone all electric and don't regret it so far. My buddy has been flying all electric for sometime now and I just had no interest and thought he was nuts. Well, I have been converted to say the least. You better just get two and lots of batteries!!! Have fun.

Eric K.
08-08-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Skippy
Senior Heliman
Location: Flint, MI USA

Went electric about a year ago and have never looked back. Have about 120 flights on my Ion-X and love it, still looks band new. You won’t have any regrets if you go to the Dark, Dark side.

Went all Electrons, No more mess
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
d_wheel
Senior Heliman
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas.

I had the pleasure of assisting a local MA rep set up for, and make his first flight on his new Ion. The first flights were very impressive and demonstrated the potential for this design. It has plenty of power and the pilot put it through its paces flawlessly. After some thought, I placed one on order. However, in the following 2 weeks, a few bugs began to show up. First, the first reduction gear off of the motor has stripped 3 times. Secondly, the motor and batteries continually get hotter than recommended maximum temps. Third, on the last flight I witnessed, there was a high pitched whine that sounded like one of the motor bearing might be going out. After this, I promptly cancelled my order.

In my humble opinion, even though this is a very impressive design, which has the potential to set the standards for high performance electric helicopters, it has a few design bugs that need to be worked out. My order including the helicopter, 2 sets of batteries, and blades came to around $3000.00 including tax. Including digital servos, paddles, chargers, power supply, duralites, etc., I would have had around $4000.00 in the project. For this much initial investment, I expect to get a product that is thoroughly de-bugged.

Later;

D.W.

Gettin old aint for sissies!
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Brian Weekley
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

ION Experience

I have 51 flights on my original ION and about 20 on #2. Just bought #3. I still have my nitro fleet.

First the bad. I too stripped out three secondary gears before I finally (I think) figured out what was going on. I was setting up the motor pinion/secondary gear at close to zero lash like I do with the machined main gear and crown gear on the rest of my X-Cells. This will (I think) quickly result in the destruction of the secondary gear. A thick piece of paper (not the stuff you roll your doobies in) and the gear holds up just fine (I think). I ended up having two of my Thunder Power packs experience a "puffed cell" on the same flying day. They were both charged and I didn't fly too long and it was on two different helis. Seems that 5 out of 100 cells in the original 7600 mAh Thunder Power packs (and the 8000's I am told) had a manufacturing defect. Trouble is that two flight packs have 40 cells in them so it seems that the chances are a little less than 50 - 50 that you will have a bad cell if your packs came from the early shipment. Bottom line is that six packs were sent back to Thunder Power about two weeks ago. I'm told they will stand behind them. The Hacker motor in ION #1 picked up power in my last two flights last week. Motor core temperature was still good (142.7 F) but I pulled the motor/controller combination and sent it back to Hacker for a check out. There were no motors available so I bought ION #3 to steal the motor/controller out of and keep two ION's flying. On the flying side of things the only bad is not being able to abort an auto. A "soft start" on the controller takes 15 seconds and a motor still turning full power abort causes unspecified exciting things to happen. The idea of not being able to abort an auto bothered me for about 45 seconds and now I finish up every flight with a few autos to relax.

Now the good. I've built about 25 X-Cells and the ION is the nicest one of the bunch (Including the Pro 2K's) IMO it is has a "locked in" feel that is as good as my Pro 2K's, rolls better and is more nimble than my Extreme's and has the least amount of control interaction of all my Furies. I put 50 flights on ION #1 and then went back to flying my YS80 powered Extreme for a few sessions. My first reaction was that the Extreme was "doggy" in comparison to the ION. It was almost as if there was a built in delay in the nitro machine that was not present with the ION. The ION redefines responsiveness. I love the lack of smoke. The amount of smoke produced by my nitro machines was really starting to bother my eyes and definately didn't endear me to the fixed wing fliers at the field. I love the fact that my trim doesn't change throughout the flight. I love the simplicity at the field. No fuel, flight boxes, or fussing with engine tuning. Turn the radio on, connect the batteries and fly. That's it! My wife will even let me put it in her Acura. No oil and goo all over everything. I simply don't want to fly my nitro machines anymore.

The biggest remaining pain in the neck is having to babysit the batteries while charging at home. I feel like a member of a hazmat response team. I know that Li-Poly's are the new kid on the block but I can't wait until there is charge safe/cell balancing circuitry available so that I can plug them in and go to the pub for a beer without worrying that they are going turn my garage into a cinder. I understand that Duralite/Flight power have something in the works in this regard. Come to think of it the three cases of heli fuel that I have sitting in my garage would do a pretty good job of cinderizing the area as well.

On balance the ION is a hands down winner. I've been flying RC for 42 years and the ION is the best thing to arrive since turnaround pattern. IMO nitro's days are numbered. Gasoline engines have taken over the big bird department. Electrics will soon take over everything else. Sure there will be room for four stroke putt putt's but if I were the guys at Cool Power I'd be signing up for a soldering course. I will be totally electric within a year except for a few scale birds that I hardly ever fly.

Because the electrics are so new prices are high and the whole exercise is NOT for the financially challenged. d_wheel is correct when he said the dollars are high. You cannot travel with your ION and expect to charge out of an automobile battery. A generator is necessary. One charger won't do the job if you want to charge two packs in 60-90 minutes. Add a table to hold all of this stuff and one or two power supplies to turn the 110V generator power into something usable for your chargers. The shipping costs associated with express service for gears, battery packs and motors is becoming significant as well.

Anyway ... thats my experience with the ION.


.
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
lawrenmd
Senior Heliman
Location: Orlando FL.

Thanks

Thanks to all who replied, this is great info!

Dave
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
KillerBob
Heliman
Location: Denmark

Brian.. I've been through pretty much the same as you exept I didn't strip any gears. I second what you say exept for the field-charging:

Charging with Schulze 636 on the LiIo program with both packs in series you'll get 6,5A charge current - and if you don't empty your packs in flight this will get you quite far in 60 mins on one charger. Charging with the LiIo program terminates charging at around 90-95% capacity and that keeps you out of the dangerzone if some cells are slightly out of balance.

As for the generator - my advice may not be legal in some places - but I just leave the engine in my car running in idle. Maybe its' more expensive in gas - but I have yet to find a generator that quiet and the generator in the car produces whats needed

Other than that I don't look back either..... I look for electric cornversions for the rest of my "fleet"....say sometheing that will run on 10s LiPo's

Best regards
Lars
08-08-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
FM54
Heliman
Location: Jacksonville, Florida

Dave,
check out this site JK_IonFlight...Jason is flying a prototype...
I hope you like it...it can show what these Ions can do...

FM54
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Brian Weekley
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

Series Charging

Killer .....

I ended up buying a pair of Orbit 6.3 Pros to handle the charging duties. I am very happy with them and they work well. When I was searching for a charger I communicated with Schulze and their recommendation was to charge in series. A local electronics type advised against charging in series because of cell balancing issues. The deciding factor for me was that the top end Schulze 8-936 wasn't released and I wanted to move ahead with a charger that would handle 8 amps.

Using the car as a generator is a novel but obvious idea. When I go away it seems that I run my generator for about 6 hours a day so I don't know how I wold feel about that. Could be good for a quick charge on a couple of packs though.

I'm curious why you would choose the ION over a Joker CX which seems to have a large following in Europe?

Brian
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
KillerBob
Heliman
Location: Denmark

Brian

I have been flying Fury's for the last few years - so the design are familiar. Allso I liked the fact that the Ion-x for now at least is a "no questions asked" design.... Before I bought the Ion I didn't know much about electrics. With the Joker you have to decide witch motor and controller, witch accus and so on - I could have done the reading to be able to decide... but bottom line I didn't want a Joker I just wanted the well known Fury to be electric.

To be honest I've ended up buying two isl6-636+ - so I hae 2x 8A chargecurrent capability

Best regards
Lars
08-08-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Heli88
Key Veteran
Location: Clarkston, MI

Skippy...

Did you figure out why your RPM's increased?

Hans
08-09-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
lawrenmd
Senior Heliman
Location: Orlando FL.

I did IT

Well, I have gone to all electric. Fury extreme sold and leaving tomorrow. New Ion sitting on the bench awaiting assembly. I can't wait to get this thing crankin! Thanks to all those who replied with their experience.

Dave
08-12-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Conrod
Veteran
Location: Melbourne, Florida

Dave

You'll have to let me see you fly that Ion!!!!
Going to Kennedy to fly it??
Conrad
ps...that sure was a sweeet xtreme...wish I had realized that you wanted to sell it, I bought a new xtreme a couple months ago.
08-14-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Brian Weekley
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

ION Update

I took delivery of six Duralite E Plus Gold flight packs yesterday along with two FPEX balancing units. I charged and balanced the packs and took them out for a fly on my ION. The packs are 5S2P 5000 mAh packs. The packs save 20 ozs. over the Thunder Power Gen. 2.0 7600 mAh packs and 16 ozs over the Gen 2.1 8000 packs. Power was very close to the Thunder Power packs I have been using for the six weeks but the weight savings made the ION a much more pleasant flying experience. I didn't push the packs but the ION with the Duralite packs was obviously much more nimble. I flew 6 minute flights and on re-charge found that I had consumed slightly less than 3000 mAh from the 5000 mAh packs. I will try to get 8 or 9 flight on each pack over the next week to see whether I see the same improvement in performance with the Duralite packs that I did with the Thunder Power packs.

I previously reported that I had a problem with several of my original Thunder Power 7600 mAh packs "puffing" and that I sent my six original packs to Thunder Power for evaluation. I received replacements from Thunder Power on Friday in the form of six of their new Gen 2.1 8000 mAh packs. I certainly appreciate the way they handled my problem. The new packs are thinner and slightly longer than the Gen 2.0 packs. They also weigh 2 ozs less each over the Gen 2,0 packs for a total savings of 4 ozs. on my ION. Apart from the shipping expense involved and the inconvenience of not having my packs for three weeks the whole episode ended satisfactorily.

I also previously reported that I sent my original Hacker motor back to the Hacker distributor because it gained rpm over the last two flights. They reported that the motor had experienced a "slipped rotor disc" and replaced it under warranty. Apart from $80.00 in shipping charges I'm none the worse for wear.

It looks like the major suppliers of batteries an motors to the ION are prepared to stand behind their products which continues to make the ION experience a very positive one.

.
08-18-2004 Over year old.
 
 
JettaTDI2001
Heliman
Location: earth

Duralite Batteries?????

Brian

Did you mean Flight power ???
Or are you using something else????
08-22-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Brian Weekley
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

Duralite/Flight Power

Jetta...

The batteries that I am using are the Duralite E Plus Gold packs which I believe are identical to the Flight Power packs sold in the UK. I have got about 8 flights in on them now and am very satisfied. I am also very satisfied with the 14 Gen 2.0 and 2.1 Thunder Power packs that I own.

There is no doubt in my mind that the Thunder Power 2.0 packs have more "punch " in them than the Duralite E Plus packs. It is possible that the Flight Power packs will improve as I get more flights on them. I believe that there was a marked improvement in the Thunder Power packs around 8 or 9 cycles. I am currently flying 8 minute flights and consuming about 3500 mAh.

The biggest difference is the 20 ozs. that I save over my Thunder Power Gen 2,0 packs. At that weight the ION is a totally different heli. It is very nimble and gentle on the collective. What really got me on to trying these packs was Mike Scoles demonstration flights at the Victoria Heli event in July. His Thunder Power Gen 2.0 packs puffed on his first flight. I lent him my Gen 2.0 packs for the rest of the weekend and found that his demonstration flights only consumed 4500 mAh out of packs. I flew pattern for years and went out of my way then to ensure that I wasn't carrying any extra fuel in competition. For me 8 minutes of flying is enough. With my flying style the Duralite E Plus packs fill the bill.

The other factor that entered into my decision to try the Duralite E Plus packs was the FPEX 2 balancing unit. From everything I have read I am lead to believe that the cells in the Li-Poly packs fall out of balance over time. I intend to send my Thunder Power packs back to them after every 50 - 75 cycles and have them check them over and re-balance them if necessary. With the FPEX balancing unit I can balance the 5S2P packs myself. I have probably spent more time fussing with the balancing unit than I have the E Plus packs.

From reading the rippers recent post he is quite high on the Thunder Power 6000 packs. I have been trying to get these packs for a couple of months now with no success. I will try to pick up a few of these packs and see how they compare for my flying style.

Who's the winner in all of this, we all are! The whole electric thing has rejuvenated me. My nitro machines are getting dusty and I've got a shop full of electric stuff to play with.

.
08-22-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

how long can you guys fly hard for, before maximum power dies off?
08-24-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Brian Weekley
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

Don't Notice a Fall-off

A.

I really don't notice much of a defference in the 8 minute flights that I am flying but then again nobody is going to stop what they are doing to watch me fly. Why don't you come to the Vancouver Heli Fly this weekend and see for yourself. I will have my six packs there plus the balancers.

Brian
08-24-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

one of the reasons i've stayed away form big electrics is i want maximum power for 100% of the flight no less. i don't want any power to die off, untill there is just no energy left in the cells (within reason of course... 'till they explode )


they do sound neat though...

where is the fun fly? this holiday?
08-25-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Brian Weekley
Senior Heliman
Location: Victoria, BC Canada

Heli Event

A....

http://www.rcfcbc.com/


Hope to see you there and we can talk about the meaning of "power".

Brian
08-25-2004 Over year old.
 
 
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e-Miniature Aircraft Furion - Razor - Ion-X > Are you pleased with your Ion?
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