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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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Main Discussion > Mixes and eCCPM
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

I don't have an eCCPM ship, but am curious. I've read about people using mixes to fix eCCPM interaction. About how many mixes are we talking about to get a true swash all around?

-Aaron
08-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
duraace9sp
Senior Heliman
Location: los angeles area

eccpm

if your set-up is good none are needed.......
08-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

So what has gone wrong if you are using mixes to undo interaction?

-Aaron
08-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
G.Man
rrProfessor
Location: Northants, but soon to be Nicosia, Cyprus

even with a good setup you can use mixes at the extremes of collective to stop the interaction caused by poor geometry (design fault)



Don't Email me as I wont reply - PM Only (spam countermeasures)
08-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
SteveH
rrProfessor
Location: Texas

In my experience, a p-mix is not normally required. Most interaction is due to the servos not giving the exact same amount of angular output for the same input, and for correcting these minor problems, I've been able to use the end point, or throw adjustments on the channels. I've got three eCCPM machines, a Predator, a Raven 50, and a scale R-22, which uses the Raven mechanics, and I don't use any mixes on any of them, just end point adjustments.

SteveH
Magnum Fuel
AMA76186
08-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

Need a new Ray's type manual

Sure wish someone would come out with a new Ray's type heli manual for CCPM. It would take a lot of the mystery out of CCPM. Ray's manual is VERY good at telling you how to set up your mCCPM heli. But not eCCPM. Heck my JR 8103 HELI manual only says like 3 words about CCPM...."You can CCPM." Online you have people saying different things about CCPM - some say it's full of interaction. Others say no never has interaction is solid as a rock. Why the discrepancies?

-Aaron
08-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Toad
Senior Heliman
Location: Hurricane, Utah

I have to laugh at the "eccpm" and mCCPM designations, I cant see why we have to be politacally correct with this, just let ccpm and regular be the terms. everyone know the difference anyway.

I dont use mixes at all on my fury's to mix out any coupling. if a quirk shows up in flight, I fly through it, as they are so minor.

*****
08-07-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
sreuss
Senior Heliman
Location: Ontario, Canada

See my previous post on eccpm setup...

Hi Guys,

I'm with SteveH on this one; eCCPM is good because you don't really need any pmixes! Further, I did a brief write up about how I set up eccpm ships some time ago... check out the following link:

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t93187p1

HIH,
SteveR
08-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

mCCPM and eCCPM

I just use those terms because everyone know what you are talking about then. Yes, when someone says CCPM to me, I know they mean eCCPM. But not everyone comes to that conclusion. I guess it's sort of like "standard transmission" on a car or "conventional landing gear" on an airplane. Someone somewhere will always get confused and want you to say manual transmission or taildragger landing gear. So mCCPM is what I say.

-Aaron
08-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

what are the correct terms for aileron and elevator?

Roll/Pitch?

-Aaron
08-07-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

Hmm

I'm aware there are no ailerons and elevatorson a heli, but...

the added cost of bandwidth and ink to say lateral cyclic and longitudinal fore/aft cyclic just isn't worth it.

But like i said in an earlier post, there will always be someone...

-Aaron
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
TMoore
rrProfessor
Location: Cookeville, TN

Use the German terms if bandwith is an issue:

Roll und Nick.

TM
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

Long

OK Back to the point though.

At the extremes of collective you would get interaction just by virtue of CCPM geometry.

For example, say you are at full up collective. All three servo's arms moved away from their neutral position. Now you introduce a little cyclic. Say it's right cyclic. The arm on the left would rise, and the arm on the right would lower. The problem is that the servo arm on the left is moving away from neutral. The servo arm on the right is moving toward its neutral. For a given servo angular change the arm will horizontally move less when moving away from neutral and move more when moving toward neutral due to the angles. The extreme example would be if the servo could move 90 degrees of neutral. At near 90 the horizontal arm movement would be almost zero. OK our helis servos don't go to 90 degrees but the geometry still says that the movement will be more near neutral for a given angular change.

OK so now the arm on the left moved less than the arm on the right. If you can envision this the swash just moved vertically. Down if you think about it.

So this must be mixed out, no? But the mix must be very complicated. It isn't just a roll/collective mix. Because at neutral swash there isn't this same interaction. Both servos are neutral at neutral collective. So the mix is only needed at the collective extremes.

-Aaron
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

I call upon companies to make a CCPM manual

Read title.

-Aaron
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
G.Man
rrProfessor
Location: Northants, but soon to be Nicosia, Cyprus

Quote 
For example, say you are at full up collective. All three servo's arms moved away from their neutral position. Now you introduce a little cyclic. Say it's right cyclic. The arm on the left would rise, and the arm on the right would lower. The problem is that the servo arm on the left is moving away from neutral. The servo arm on the right is moving toward its neutral. For a given servo angular change the arm will horizontally move less when moving away from neutral and move more when moving toward neutral due to the angles.


Yup thats why you use mixes



Don't Email me as I wont reply - PM Only (spam countermeasures)
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

Yes I knew you use mixes, my question was...

How many mixes does it take to fix interaction?

-Aaron
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

abbreviations

what a crock. ok if you know what they are! if you don't then it can take ages to search out what they mean. eccpm= electronic mix. um so when I say them yup I save probably .000000025 sec's between saying the abbreviation and eletronic mix.
as far as roll and pitch are concerned. how about longditudinal cyclic control....or LCC for short and lateral cyclic control......or LCC for short. um..no have to be lateral cyclic control about the longditudinal axis.......or LCCATL. Hang on....lets reinvent the wheel and call it...roll and pitch!
Sorry, but all this mCCPM and eCCPM stuff seems rather pointess.
(and is thrust onto us by the manufacturers) we don't have to change if we don't want to. Again sorry if i have offended the techno's out there
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

Heh I guess i needed to add a smiley face as i was kidding about the bandwidth thing.

-Aaron
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
G.Man
rrProfessor
Location: Northants, but soon to be Nicosia, Cyprus

Quote 
Sorry, but all this mCCPM and eCCPM stuff seems rather pointess.


Okay so what type of pitch mixing does a Space baron use?

What about a zoom 400?

its NON-CCPM or traditional mechanical which is very different to mCCPM...

Thats why we use mCCPM and eCCPM we still understand those of you who say mechanical and ccpm only... but its coz we tolerate peoples misuse of the terms



CCPM means that the pitch and cyclic are controlled by the movement of the swashplate this can be done electronically in the TX or an onboard module or mechanically like the bergen, raptor etc etc...



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08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Aaron29
Key Veteran
Location: Bossier City, LA

Ok now that we have that settled I'll take back my hijacked thread.

:P

Back to my original question how many mixes does it take to get an interaction free eCCPM setup?

-Aaron
08-08-2004 Over year old.
 
 
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