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Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC . CanoMod

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Scale Model RC Helicopters > Bell 222 Liftoff problem with retracts
 
 
gquiring
Heliman
Location: Matawan, NJ

I attempted to fly my new Century Bell 222 with Raptor mechanics this weekend but I had some issues with the take offs. I am an experienced flyer but had a hard time getting this heli off the ground on several attempts. I am thinking that retracts add an extra challenge in lifting the ship off evenly or else it will tip over on a grass field.

I did not build this ship, and it was not flown by it's original owner. I am very puzzled with the problem but I had two separate issues which originally made me think the servos were at fault. The original owner decided on Futaba 3003's which are cheap servos.

On it's first flight I had the tip over issue similiar to video link below. But once it was off the ground the heli would twitch when I gave it cyclic control. It's a PCM receiver so it can't be radio glitches and the collective and tail were fine. I called it a day and went home and reworked the linkages to improve the geometry because of the tight clearance some comprises were made with the pushrods.

Next day out is the below clip. The lift off almost resulted in a busted heli. I did try again and got a smooth takeoff. I flew a small circle which went ok, but I am convinced these servos have to go.

My question, is it hard to lift off a Bell 222 with retracts?


Thanks
Gary
05-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Dr.Tim
Key Veteran
Location: Mojave Desert

I fly the Big Airwolf from Vario and have had some of the faults your 222 is showing. First thing I would check is --Alignment --- Does the mechanics sit in the fuse square?
How does the heli fly in hover?
How is the Balance? (Side to side) I found with these Winged Heli's that if one side is heavier you will have a funny side slipping take-off untill you are in hover -- This is critical!! So Check the Balance and alignment. Good Luck -- these are alot of work!!!!! Once I had mine balanced it flies like it's on RAILS!!!
Dr.Tim

From Simple minds come simple ideas! Starwood Models, Approach Engineering
05-20-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
fritzthecat
Key Veteran
Location: New Orleans

Taking off in a Bell 222 with wheels should not be any different than taking off with skits. The trick is to set up the heli while it is still in pod form. There you can mess with linkages, trim, engine mixture and pitch / throttle curves. I get an old phone book and tape it to the bottom of the heli to simulate the fuse weight.
From your video it shows you simply over corrected when the heli drifted left. Either you are not that experienced or the heli has control problems. With the 3003 servos the linkage better be smooth and the links not tight or the servos will have a hard time moving the controls. I'd spend U$150 and get some 9202 servos. Cheaper than a new fuse and mechs.

Fritz
Hey, my Bell 222 is for sale. :-)


'Send Money, Women and Guns!'
05-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gquiring
Heliman
Location: Matawan, NJ

Fritz,

I did not over correct anything. I lifted the heli off the ground more than 6 times with the same results. I have been flying heli's for a long time and know how to fly.

It's clear that something is wrong with the 222 because of the retracts or the cheap servos. Use some physics and think about a triangular landing gear. It's not very stable when all three points are not even.

Do you fly a 222 with retracts?
05-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
sykochin
Senior Heliman
Location: GoWest

Retract is not the problem, The fact is you already lift off. So those landing gears are not the issue. From your Video. It's simply stalling. Your rpm is too low.
Remember your heli weight is over 9 lbs now.
05-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Dougg
Heliman
Location: Westminster, Colo

Have you checked the phasing on the washout. Or does your radio have swashplate timing activated? I would check those two items first.
05-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Dougg
Heliman
Location: Westminster, Colo

or is your aileron servo reversed?
05-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Copter Doctor
Elite Veteran
Location: daleville/ft.rucker, al

problem 222

hey gary!!
i have 2 each bell 222s and have never had any problems. the fact that the servos are the cheap ones really shouldn't be a problem although for a fuse i always recomend at least a ball brng type. i would definately want to solve the problem out of the fuse. pull that sucker out, fly it in pod n' boom and see what happens. first check your servos. test them on the bench and makr sure the one being used for l/r cyclic isnt moving slow or something like that. then check your mechanical linkages for a tight or locked up brng or a binding pushrod. next lets look at the rotor head. the links between the swashplate and the rotor head on the raptor are pretty straight forward bit all pitch rods are usually in a straight vertical position if the timing/phasing is right. course on a raptor it wont really sit any other way.(correct me if i am wrong y'all) if all this checks out, go fly it in pod n' boom and if that works great, slap her back in the fuse. now if it still acts funkey(no pun intended) then i think u have what i had with my first wheeled model. the fear if ever drifting sideways on takeoff or landing. also anothe thing to check is make sure when in the fuse, the top cowling isnt rubbing on one of those servos there up top and messing up your whole control program. that tends to happen when u have an aileron er, roll servo up so high(dadgum airplane terms just wont leave me alone).
well i hope this may have helped solve your problem. the 222 looks absolutely KILLER in flight with the gear up............emile

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft
05-20-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Alan Szabo Sr
Key Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Bell 222

I dont have the 30 size just the 60. As everyone is saying the helicpter lifts off the ground just like any other helicopter with skids. Has the raptor been flown as pod and boom before it went into the fuselage?

05-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Dr.Tim
Key Veteran
Location: Mojave Desert

222

gquiring -- Alan Knows what he is talking about! I would use all the info you can get from this Kid He has been flying these PPCF (PrePainted Century Fuse's) for awhile! He also happens to be a fantastic gentleman, Pilot and Friend. The only down side is his helicopters blow smoke out the bottom!! But all aside from everything I would email him for his set-up, Balancing and Radio Tricks! He is the Master and knows this helicopter inside and out!! If he can't answere your question, contact his Mentor -- The_Dave!!

Dr.Tim

From Simple minds come simple ideas! Starwood Models, Approach Engineering
05-20-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Hughes500Pilot
Key Veteran
Location: Anaheim, CA

My Concept 30 with a Bell 222 body (with retracts), takes off like any other helicopter... From you video, I would say it is something other then the body. -Steve
05-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ed vega
Key Veteran
Location: nyc, queens

retracts should be free of any ridged binding , soft linkages, or collapsing after it's depoyed, position locks, not even getting to the bays doors.. your using smooth mech levers .. sometimes the springs are too soft, and cause it to tilt too soon. double up on spring tension ..

they are straight forward , and should work. also need to look at other configs and determine which one you want to use , not just what it came with, see how it should work. there enough good scalers to help in the setup ..

have to say on some tri-setups I had to double up the spring tension with coil overs, add ons to avoid a leg tip over .. actually you can make your own rear spring shocks struts with car parts.

on the other hand this is what I used for the the heim tri-gear, never a tip over with this setup.. question, who made them?

05-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
hoh
Heliman
Location: Viva Las Vegas

Gary.. Is that you???
Hey this is Handi, Nice to see you again. So getting back to choppers again? Me too.. about six months now !
Gary. I have to agree with Sykochin. It has nothing to do with the landig gear. It could be stalling.
I saw your video. It looks like stalling....
I have new Bell-222 and Airwolf 30 size, they fly nice. Here is the video.
http://www.homanns.com/handihomann/video/Default.htm
Do you still fly at Impact? Say hi to everyone!
05-20-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Copter Doctor
Elite Veteran
Location: daleville/ft.rucker, al

exam answer

hey ed!
hmmmmmmmmmm dubro used to make some airplane nosegear like that. they look pretty close........years ago rotary wing concepts made a similar set i used on my larry jolly airwolf but the springs were internal so not those............i give up......emile

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft
05-20-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gquiring
Heliman
Location: Matawan, NJ

Quote 
Retract is not the problem, The fact is you already lift off. So those landing gears are not the issue. From your Video. It's simply stalling. Your rpm is too low.
I just watched the video, I agree the head speed looks slow - it's not. The video camera must act like a tach making the head look slower than it is. I tached the head at 1700 in a hover. The head speed when lifting off was around 1600.

I ordered some new servos. Should be here by Wednesday. I am going to pull the mechanics and fly it pod and boom and make sure everything is sound.
05-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
gquiring
Heliman
Location: Matawan, NJ

Quote 
Gary.. Is that you???
Hello Handi!!!! Yes I got back in two years ago. I just picked up this heli from a friend who was too CHICKEN to fly it. He did a beatiful job on the retracts so I could not resist when I heard he was looking to sell it. Century does a gorgous job at painting these bodies.

I don't think they fly at Impact any longer. I have been flying at Jake Brown and Bridgewater.
05-20-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ed vega
Key Veteran
Location: nyc, queens

emile - tada right on.. both ans are right .. and yes they were on larry jollys airwolf series ...
05-21-2002 Over year old.
 
 
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Scale Model RC Helicopters > Bell 222 Liftoff problem with retracts
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