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CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters . HeliProz

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Main Discussion > CCPM?????
 
 
Sceadu Flyer
Senior Heliman
Location: Horseheads, NY

Hey Everyone.........

I have a question for all of you out there who have more heli experience than me. I was wondering, what are the advantages of a CCPM setup vs. a conventional control setup??? Less slop? Less weight?? More precise??? What is the good and/or bad of CCPM?

Thanks!!
Sceadu Flyer
05-17-2004 Over year old.
 
 
HeliWhacker
Senior Heliman
Location: Childersburg, AL.

Here we go again

Conventional is CCPM, you are reffering to eCCPM.

.
05-17-2004 Over year old.
 
 
mrNoodles
rrProfessor
Location: Borlänge, Sweden

eCCPM is known as CCPM (at least in this part of the world )
Otherwise they would be called mCCPM and eCCPM.

Mechanical mixing uses one servo for collective movement.
CCPM uses 3 servos for the same movement.

CCPM puts higher demands on the builder when doing the final adjustments.

Mechanical is (in my opinion) easier to setup for a beginner, though it would include more parts.!

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.
05-17-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
G.Man
rrProfessor
Location: Northants, but soon to be Nicosia, Cyprus

Quote 
eCCPM is known as CCPM (at least in this part of the world )


Yes that is correct... even tho it is incorrectly known as CCPM

Quote 
Otherwise they would be called mCCPM and eCCPM.


That is the correct terminology yes...

Both systems require accurate geometry, the difference is, eCCPm cannot be subtrimmed as easily, so demands better understanding of the requirements for accurate setup...

http://home.tiscali.nl/john.vugts/S...ements/CCPM.htm

http://www.raptortechnique.com/radiosetup-swashtype.htm

http://www.scotiabladerunners.ca/ECCPM.htm

and if you were in any doubt...

http://toutlemodelisme.com/homepage/PCM9xManual.pdf

Check what JR has to say in the PCM9X manual its page 11 you want....



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05-17-2004 Over year old.
 
 
blakka_1
Elite Veteran
Location: Northampton

eccpm shares the load across the 3 servos
05-17-2004 Over year old.
 
 
armageddon
Veteran
Location: N. Y.

mCCPM and eCCPM both uses three servos.

mCCPM uses
one for aileron (left, right cyclic)
one for elevation (front, back cyclic)
one for picth.. (angle for main blades)

eCCPM uses
all three for aileron
all three for elevation
all three for pitch

this example is eCCPM 120 degrees that uses three servos.
you can have 4 servos with 90 degrees eCCPM and all four are
used together for each function.

Hope this make sense..

.

WHAT SIGNATURE?
05-17-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Chuckie
Key Veteran
Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

Correction,

eCCPM uses 2 servos for aileron!

Chuckie
05-17-2004 Over year old.
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Quote 
cannot be subtrimmed as easily


IMO, Sub trimming bad on either system.

Chris
Xero G

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
05-17-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ScareCrow_Delta
Veteran
Location: Sebastian, FL

If you do a search, you will find inconclusive answers about what is better. If you do a search about what is mechanical ccpm and what is electronic ccpm, you will find answers.

~~~~ Defy the laws of gravity....gracefully ~~~~
05-18-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jb_turner
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

I am with ScareCrow_Delta on this one as a simple SEARCH will find accurate answers.
05-18-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Sceadu Flyer
Senior Heliman
Location: Horseheads, NY

Ok,

I now understand the differences in the terminology, and what exactly eCCPM vs. CCPM is. Buy I am looking for some opinions here, is eCCPM good or bad?? I realize that having 3 servos moving together for colllective is better than one (from a load point of view). I also get the feeling that it is initially more work to set up a eCCPM heli. Yet what I am looking for is real world experiences with both and what was good or bad about it!? I have a traditional CCPM heli now, and that is the only type of heli setup I am familiar with.

Thanks
05-18-2004 Over year old.
 
 
HeliWhacker
Senior Heliman
Location: Childersburg, AL.

eCCPM =electronic collective cyclic pitch mixing

mCCPM=mechanical collective cyclic pitch mixing

One use linkages, rods, bellcranks, balls. etc...............

The other is done by the radio.

I have both, eCCPM was easier for me, dont know why some say its harder???
I like eCCPM better. generally, fewer parts= less slop. I firmly believe anything you can do electronically should be better than mechanical.
Electrons have NO slop.
Both ways work great, just a personal prefference.

.
05-18-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Toad
Senior Heliman
Location: Hurricane, Utah

I went from flying Bergen Machines and Rappys to flying fury's, I am now in love with the feel of the eccpm, yeah they say there is intereaction at full throws etc.. well, all I can say is i love the collective feel, so much more crisp and acurrate. Now I want a good .50 size eCCPM ship
as far as cyclic, to me it feels better by a little over the conventional machines, not much really though.

*****
05-18-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
G.Man
rrProfessor
Location: Northants, but soon to be Nicosia, Cyprus

Quote 
Electrons have NO slop.


True in our context but TX's dont transmit all 3 signals at the same time, one always gets priority depending on what kind of command you put in...

For that reason eCCPM requires a fast CPU in the TX and accurate setup to reduce interaction...

mCCPM gives no interaction if setup properly and my R90 had less slop than my fury extreme...

The advantage of eCCPM is you use 3 servos to control collective so instead of one 6kg servo pushing the swash you get 18kg pushing the swash... usually faster than mCCPM as well... Hence the reason why its more popular with 3d flyers...

FAI flyers generally prefer mCCPM



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05-18-2004 Over year old.
 
 
mrNoodles
rrProfessor
Location: Borlänge, Sweden

Quote 
IMO, Sub trimming bad on either system.

Chris

Well said!

/Fredrik
'Hm now I just have to find out where to connect the GV1 sensor to the Jazz80 ESC.
05-18-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
G.Man
rrProfessor
Location: Northants, but soon to be Nicosia, Cyprus

A small amount of subtrim on mCCPM helis which are not using max (120 or 150%) ATV is fine and does no harm at all... Only when you reach the limits of servo throw (never) on a mCCPM heli does it cause a problem...

I mean its no different to trim if your not maxing the throws....



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05-18-2004 Over year old.
 
 
HeliWhacker
Senior Heliman
Location: Childersburg, AL.

Quote 
For that reason eCCPM requires a fast CPU in the TX and accurate setup to reduce interaction...


I cant imagine a couple milliseconds making any difference what so ever.

Watching the servos whilst moving the sticks I cant see any delay or "interaction". Every movement seems to be exactly what the input is. If you cant see it, is it happening enough to cause an interaction?

Do plankers still use mechanical v-tail / flaperon etc.. mixers?


.
05-18-2004 Over year old.
 
 
G.Man
rrProfessor
Location: Northants, but soon to be Nicosia, Cyprus

Heliwhacker

if you cant see it then I guess its not happening...

Try moving your collective up and down quickly and watch the swashplate dance to the beat



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05-18-2004 Over year old.
 
 
HeliWhacker
Senior Heliman
Location: Childersburg, AL.

Quote 
Try moving your collective up and down quickly and watch the swashplate dance to the be


I have many times it stay perfectly level as fast as I can move it, and I have an el cheapo xp662! (hate the 3 pt curves)

Thats why I cant understand the whole interaction hype. Even while hovering I can bang the collective up and down and the heli does the same, doesnt tilt in any direction that I can tell.

Maybe other radios are different???
What radios have you noticed that on?

Looking for an RD8000 tho. anybody have one for sale?

.
05-18-2004 Over year old.
 
 
G.Man
rrProfessor
Location: Northants, but soon to be Nicosia, Cyprus

Heliwhacker, it must be that your servos are slower than your tx then...

I use a 9Z and fast servos and believe me the interaction is there even with perfect geometry (as perfect as it can be)...

I will try and post a movie of what happens, I will use my new Carbon Raptor, as this has the lowest interaction I have seen along with my 3DNT, but it still exists...

Dont get me wrong I am not anti eCCPM, just that it helps to be aware of the situation and work around it with good mechanical setup...

eCCPM is undoubtedly the future as electronics are only going to get better... I have already designed some geometry that will be interaction free at the extremes of travel, but sadly I think it will be too expensive to produce and will develop some slop long term...



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05-18-2004 Over year old.
 
 
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