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UAV Autonomous Unmanned Aerial Vehicles > autopilot.sourceforge.net
 
 
gregj
Heliman
Location: Palos Verdes, Calif.

Has anyone participated in the autopilot.sourceforge.net project?

This is an open source development effort to create R/C helicopter-based UAV's. The the whole thing looks pretty neat, but they have a lot of work to do. (This seems to be the case overall in this area; lots of exciting progress, but lots of interesting technical challenges ahead still.)

There is a company that sells a really nice looking on-board sensor package for $299 that includes three gyros and three accelerometers, and fits nicely with the software available on SourceForge.

It looks like they are using an iPaq with GPS attachment onboard to get GPS positional info to use in conjunction with the accelerometer-based position estimation. (Usual issue: the accelerometers respond with position updates very quickly, but they drift pretty quickly. The GPS slower system is used to correct the accelerometers periodically.) (The iPaq is something you have to get separately from the above sensor package.)

Is this project still pretty active? I'm thinking it would be mega-fun to hop in and start getting involved with it.

Is there another hobby heli UAV project that I should also look into for comparison?

Thanks a million!

GregJ
04-20-2004 Over year old.
 
 
autopilot
Heliman
Location: Albuquerque, NM

I run the http://autopilot.sourceforge.net/ project and also founded http://rotomotion.com to sell the products that we use with the autopilot code.

Most of the recent development has been on the commercial Rotomotion UAV products and the Free Software has only had critical bug fixes. I plan to sync the two code bases sometime soon so that the Free version is compatible with the commercial one, although the Rotomotion product has extra features that make it more useful for commercial users.

Our turn-key rotorcraft UAVs have been delivered to numerous customers and are ready to fly "out of the box". However, they do cost a bit more than most hobby helicopters, which is why we also support the Free Software project.

The software currently available from autopilot.sourceforge.net can hover a helicopter and perform simple navigation. It is definitly a significant amount of work to put it all together and tune it for your helicopter. Several of the other members of the project have successfully adapted it to their helicopters.

If you don't want to do all the work yourself, Rotomotion can sell you a pre-assembled flight controller with the uavpro software that only requires mounting and a short tuning process. We've installed this on many customer's airframes and the flight controllers have logged hundreds of hours of airtime.

I see that you've also signed up on the autopilot-devel mailing list; I need to send out details on the project's roadmap to it as well.
04-21-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gregj
Heliman
Location: Palos Verdes, Calif.

I went to your web site, and what you do is truly amazing. However, I am a hobby pilot and open source programmer. The only product I see on your web site is a $27K turnkey system, which is two orders of magnitude off from my budget. And, I would love to get "under the hood," learn about and contribute to an ongoing open source UAV software development activity.

To name the open source project, maybe we could start with the name "Linux", and modify it based on the "U" in "UAV", and call it "Unix" ;-)

Anyway, to the extent that you and other commercial vendors are willing to provide guidance, experience, etc. to a "just getting started" newbie in the UAV world in this forum, it would be MASSIVELY appreciated!!
04-22-2004 Over year old.
 
 
autopilot
Heliman
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Mike is absolutely right about the importance of getting demos before purchasing something as expensive and complex as a UAV. We're happy to provide demos, give tours of our production facility and can provide references for customers who are flying Rotomotion UAVs and flight controllers on a daily basis.

Although, I realize that you're not looking for a turnkey system, Greg, and hope that you'll be able to use the autopilot.sourceforge.net code base to build your own autonomously flying helicopter. We still support that side of the market, too, and are always excited to hear about our customers' successes.
04-22-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gregj
Heliman
Location: Palos Verdes, Calif.

mfouche wrote:
> You can start with cheap hardware and a good test stand.

Hi Mike,

Thanks a million for the advice and guidance! The need for a test stand hadn't occurred to me - how embarrassing! I've got LOTS to learn, and a big learning curve to scramble up. But I think it will be incredibly fun and interesting.

Greg
04-23-2004 Over year old.
 
 
spincycl
Veteran
Location: Marietta, GA

I AM one of ROTOMOTION's customers. In fact I have quite literaly the first production "turnkey" auto-nav device they made (GPS, AHRS, control...the worx).

The sourceforge project is great, and definately a good starting point for UAV research (if you are the technical type). R.M. at some point started making the nessesary sensors and servo controls - which works with the S.F. code. Since it worked so well, why not add in a small GPS with a on-board processor? So, to make a long story short, my team purchased the COMPLETE "one box" auto-nav system for a more than reasonable price. We quite literally just had to mount it, provide DC power, and provide some wireless data link (802.11) in our case.

So, we had it installed, but our Bergen Twin is not anywhere near being the same as R.M.'s test heli. We drove to their facility, and they even tuned the system to our heli and test flew it....nice. Then their programmer spent LOTS of time on the phone with me doing further setup and answering questions. I am not a Linux freak at all, but he PATIENTLY talked me through the Linux jungle. There was even one time when he literally LOGGED INTO THE NAV BOX FROM NewMexico from the internet, Really!

Eventhough R.M. will be making turnkey systems with heli, I know that they will support my system for a long time - and they have not let me down once. I also should mention that the system software is constantly being tweaked and upgraded, and of course everything is upgradeable.

Performance?
At the aerial robotics competition we used it in, we had stellar performance. Even the judges (who are aerospace engineers) were impressed. In fact one judge was amazed at the high forward flight speed we attained. "I have never seen a autonimous model helicopter fly that fast autonimously". Then the heli stopped on a dime right over the GPS coordinate(s), and I quote: "Waypoint one, is the heli close enough to the coordinate?" - "... ah, it's just hovering over my head..."

Is my team happy with the RotoMotion system? Let's just say that we'll be buying another system for our 2nd heli very soon.
04-23-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JohnC
Veteran
Location: East Yorkshire, England

Spincycl,

Just to be clear: Are you from the SPSU team (who list Rotomotion as a sponsor), or are you from a different group?
04-23-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
3DP
Heliman
Location: Marietta, GA

rock solid performance

I am the contract test pilot for Rotomotion. I have tested the latest flight controller on my last visit. All I can say is, I have total confidence in the flight controller. Trammel added some new functionality to the box, and there is always work being done to make it even better. There's always some amount of nervousness when testing new code, and everyone is on edge when it comes time to test. But the flight controller proved itself yet again, and performed flawlessly. I'm also the test pilot for SPSU, and we have always had great performance from the flight controller.
04-24-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
spincycl
Veteran
Location: Marietta, GA

Both myself and Andrew are SPSU members.

We originally were given a system on a loan from RM (and we were quite gratefull - especially since we knew than that system was only the 2nd one) So, we got some money.... and we paid for the latest complete system. We keep them on our sponsors list and T-shirts because they deserve a little free advertising, especially with all of the help they have been and they have been GREAT at keeping software up to date for us.

As of late, the SPSU team runs the RM autopilot, but we are putting it on to a "local" helicopter network which talks to other systems. Specifically, the high-level intelligence, mapping, and general flight mode control will be done by another Cerfboard running Linux. We have an on-board video server to control as well. Then across the wireless link we have a slave image processing computer (or two), and finally the Linux console/display that monitors the RM flight unit and can log into either of the on-board CerfBoard computers.

This system we have in the works is starting to get interesting :-)
04-24-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
spincycl
Veteran
Location: Marietta, GA

Disclaimer- I hate flame wars, so be kind and read the whole thing.

If it sounds like I am getting kickbacks or working for RM or anything else , I am not. I never got a dime from RM, and I have NEVER- EVER been a test pilot for them, nor have I been a safety pilot, not even for my team. Just because a pilot says it works well, does that make him biased or deceptive? I am just a back up pilot and a hardware/software developer for my university team. And if we want to put their logo on our T-shirts, we feel it's ok. Just because they don't charge us per minute, or hour for "tech support", does that mean we are SPONSORED? If you consider that answering my dumb questions to be a sponsorship, then I guess it is.

Mr. Fouche, I understand your points, and I can see your business integrity is right on but I am just saying that you are mistaken, that's all. Its great that you "establish relationships" with customers and vendors, and that is a bonus of doing business with NRI. I have heard some really good things about your product from many sources..... but if those "good things" were to come from Rusty, your pilot, would that make it all of the suddent a biased, and a questionable opinion?

Whoa- this UAV surge is getting to critical mass now, isn't it? The competition is starting to heat up......and remember what "critical mass" means in nuclear physics!

I would like to apologize to the readers of this thread.... I am not exactly writing things to cool off the thread here. I just wanted to share opininions and experiences with our RM unit, that's all.

THANKS to Mr Fouche for giving us good information on his experiences with finding an AHRS and dealing with vendors. I have been keepin tabs on NRI for years, and have seen that aggressive product improvements, and an overall drive to make the best, and be the best... It shows, Mike.

[SpinCycl puts his hand forth to shake hands with mfouche]
04-27-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JohnC
Veteran
Location: East Yorkshire, England

Spincycl,

You don't need to receive money from RM to be sponsored: giving you equipment is the same thing. Of course, if you confirm that you have paid the full price for the unit you have, and will be doing so for the second unit then it's all above board.

People are very cautious in some of these forums because of the complete BS claims which are made via behind-the-scenes arrangements. It's not so much in this new UAV forum, but has gone on a lot in the Aerial Photography area. As Mike says, showing some video makes all the difference.

If there are 'numerous other customers' using it, surely a couple of them will be on this forum to share more info with us?. What about the open-source kits ? has anyone used (or tried to use) one of them?.

All that aside, your other developments sound really cool. I'm looking forward to seeing details of your progress on your web-site: keep it updated.

In the robotics competition you entered, how did you finish?.


John C.
04-27-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
spincycl
Veteran
Location: Marietta, GA

I suppose the only "REAL" way to judge a UAV system is that it operates like this:

1) Buy UAV
2) Remove from Box
3) Fill with Fuel, and charge batteries
4) Install Software on computer (or use one that comes with it)
5) Input mission plan coordinates
6) Hit START...

(I'll bet everyone wants one this easy to run)


John C: My team (SPSU), is rank 3rd in North America - GA Tech and Arizona is 1st and 2nd, respectively. Its only these same 3 teams that even have a score, since autonimous flight is a multiplier of 1 that lets you even have a score. "No Auto, no score". And, yep we paid for our unit 100%.

Mike: You hit the nail on the head - video is great for an un-biased opinion. (professionally done video is even better)

Would it be possible for you to post a short video of the autocopter doing an autorotation? That has got to be really scary to watch, especially if it's an engine-off auto.
04-27-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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