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Boca Bearings . Modefo's RC Helicopters . XHELI.COM

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e-JR Voyager E > Hacker motor/controller help!!!!!!
 
 
cliffbarrimore
Senior Heliman
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire, Sunny UK

Hi All

I have a JR voyager E and I have just upgraded to a hacker motor and speed controller. but I can't get the head speed up enough to lift off the ground. the instructions say, set it on full throttle, wait for the beeps then go to low throttle, and then its set.

I have tried everything, but I guess the head speed is less than 1000rpm, the throttle curve has no effect. I'm using
JR 3810 TX JR PCM rx,
ultimate BEC
Hacker c40 -14l (2143rpm/v)
hacker heli master 40 3P opto
10cell 3000mah

once it gets up to a certain speed increasing the throttle has no effect.
I'm not sure if its a faulty speed controller or I have the TX settings incorrect, or if there is some settings I can do on the controller.
I checked that it was set for a hacker motor as per instructions(timing and frequency)

I'm very frustrated and feel let down, as at least it flew (just about) on the standard controller and brushed motor

any help or suggestions would be great
04-17-2004 04:22 PM
 
 
Ralphw
Key Veteran
Location: Spring, TX

cliffbarrimore,

A little more info will help, specifically, what are your current throttle curve settings and what pinion size are you running?

The Hacker ESC (when in the GOV mode, which it sounds like you've set) will maintain whatever percentage value is associated with your stick position. I spool my VE up in the Normal mode with a throttle curve of 0-20-95-95-95 and I fly in Idle-Up 1 with a "curve" of 95-95-95-95-95. My Idle-Up 2 throttle curve is the same only the pitch curve changes. All of this is with a JR 8103 radio, which should be the same as your 3810.

The other thing I noticed is the KV of your motor. Due to it's gearing, the VE requires a fairly high KV rating. I fly with a C40-8L which has a KV of 3750 and before that an Astroflight 020 with a KV of 4200. At a KV of 2143 you are going to be VERY VERY low on the headspeed even with a 10 cell pack. That may well be the issue here and not your ESC.

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"
04-18-2004 03:18 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cliffbarrimore
Senior Heliman
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire, Sunny UK

I have tried lots of throttle curves and none really have effect, this was the motor recommended for the Voyager. currently I set the curve at 0-20-95-100-100

I currently have a 15 tooth gear on the motor.

the strange thing is the motor doesn't even sound like its running fast, I tried a 7 cell pack, thinking it would run slower,but I had the same results as the 10 cell pack. there was for about 1 second a glitch in the system and then the motor really sped up and I was airbourne for a brief second.
I keep hearing about setting it in GOV mode, I assume this is set by turning on with the throttle on full and wait for 1 or 2 beeps. If so both modes give the exact same results, in fact I cant see any difference at all.
I would have thought the standard gearing on the Voyager would have been 9 or 10 :1 which I would have thought with this motor at 2000 rpm per volt on a 10 cell pack would give somewhere around 1800+ rotor rpm.

So from what you are saying I need to replace the motor with one that does around 4000 rpm per volt..

Any more help before I ditch the motor would be great
04-18-2004 09:38 AM
 
 
luc
Heliman
Location: France

yep , a 4 turn is too mild
what you need is hacker C40 8L.
It will work with 8 to 10 cells, and very fast...
04-18-2004 02:28 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Ralphw
Key Veteran
Location: Spring, TX

The C40-8L has a KV of 3750 and that works great if you use a decent sized pinion. I'm using a 17t, which puts the headspeed at approx 2000 in flight. Anything less than 1400 rpm is inviting disaster as the wobbles are close by.

I would look for something with a KV of no less than 3700. The C40-8L is generally considered THE motor for the VE when flown on 10 cells (or a 3s Li-PO pack). It will fly on 8, but sure won't set the world on fire. If you have to fly with 8 cells, you might consider the C40-10S which has a KV of 4260. Not as much torque as the 8L but plenty of headspeed. Another great thing about the C40 series is the fact that they bolt directly in the VE with no mods.

My choice on 10 NiMH cells would be the C40-8L with a 17t pinion. Lot's of headspeed, plenty of torque and decent duration.

For what it's worth, I don't believe you will ever be able to get the 14L to fly the VE in any real fashion. The KV is just too low and even adding a larger pinion isn't going to do enough.

Just my two cents worth !!

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"
04-18-2004 02:46 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cliffbarrimore
Senior Heliman
Location: Farnborough, Hampshire, Sunny UK

thanks all for your help and input..... time for a new motor!!
04-18-2004 06:46 PM
 
 
Pat
Heliman
Location:

c 40 14L is too slow really.
I use c40 8s and 8 cells. Motor is a quite hot. What is recommended by Hacker is c40 10s with 8 cells. And many prove that it works well. (C40 10s have 4200 rpm/volt which is double compared to C40 14L 2143 rpm/volt) So you need to double your rotor speed.

Solution is to increase your rotor speed. Two ways to do it.

1. Add more cell ( maybe enough coz your speed control can handle maximum16 cells. 16 cells add rotor speed by 100% compared to 8 cells. But it will be very heavy and expensive)
2. use more tooth pinion gear ( very possible coz ECO 8 can fly with 10 cell + C40 14L. But ECO 8 has different gear ratio. So you must adjust your gear ratio by using more tooth pinion gear.) Since you already have 10 cell pack, to get enough rotor speed you need more than 24 tooth pinion gear??? I don't know you can find 24 tooth gear or not.

Add more cell is expensive so I think best way is to
First, find 20-25 tooth pinion ( 24-25 tooth is enough). and second, if the speed is not high enough add more cell, for example 12 cells.
05-05-2004 12:57 PM
 
 
Pat
Heliman
Location:

If you can't find more than 24 tooth pinion gear and if you think that adding more cell is expensive, you may have to change motor
Consider what is the least expensive way.....
05-05-2004 01:03 PM
 
 
Ralphw
Key Veteran
Location: Spring, TX

The use of a 24t pinion is NOT a good idea. The additional load you place on the motor to get the headspeed you want/need is going to greatly increase the current draw and reduce flight times. In addition, the motor will "bog" with rapid increases in collective. Last, but by no means least, the use of a 12 cell battery on the VE will add quite a bit of unwelcome weight...something the VE can absolutely do without.

Ralph W.
"Life's Short, Fly Fast"
05-05-2004 02:16 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Pat
Heliman
Location:

Ralphw please correct me if I'm wrong.

At the same power output, 14 turn motor will have less rpm than 8 turn but MUCH higher torque. From the basic equation, Power output = k * rpm*torque ( k = constant ), so using more than 24 turn motor isn't load motor at all because it has higher torque than 8 turn motor. Second, at the same power output,14 turn motor consume less current than 8 turn motor because it has higher efficiency (electrical power to mechanical power efficiency) than 8 turn motor. The last one I agree with you that it's a little too heavy for this type of motor. So my point is why not try the new pinion gear first coz it's very cheap compare to the new motor and if it doesn't work, then buy new motor. Coz theoritically it should work.

This is my point of view coz I'm an engineer but practically, however I might be wrong.
Thanks for any advice and commend

Great discussion
05-08-2004 05:43 PM
 
 
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e-JR Voyager E > Hacker motor/controller help!!!!!!
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