RunRyder - Thumb to Pinch - how long?

rrTV-PHOTO

New HD TV

HOME rrTV-PHOTO GALLERIES MY GALLERY HELP-FAQ

myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 678 ONLINE 19 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER START HERE

4 pages [ << < 1 2 ( 3 ) 4 NEXT >> ]

1935 views

POST REPLY

Ace Hobby	.	Esprit Model	.	Thunder Power RC
	.		.

Main Discussion > Thumb to Pinch - how long?

jpla010
Senior Heliman
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Hey good onya jason!

couple things I noticed that might help you:

1) I run my sticks pretty short. If your still having problems getting the full range try shortening the sticks. It will take a bit more getting used to but you'l be able to get the full range.

2) With pinching you can run pretty high tension on the sticks without slipping off. This REALLY helps gettting the rolls and flips axial. A while back I upped the tension and it stopped my rolls corkscrewing. Too much and it compromises the piro-flips tho

3)Even tho I've been pinching since starting for certain moves I still put the thumb on top and finger as support, also sometimes find myself only using finger or only using thumb. Just whatever feels right and gets me the lest unwanted control input for a particular manouver

Seeya on Saturday!

Jonathon

06-12-2008 10:08 AM

JAGNZ
rrProfessor
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Cheers mate, thanks for the tips. You and your flying was one of the things that prompted me to switch for good.

Gotta try and catch up to you somehow. LOL. If this doesn't work I'll have to break some of your fingers 'accidentally' or something.

Jason Greenwood

Fury Extreme, T700N, 2X T600N's, Trex 500, DSX9 2.4
www.3dheli.co.nz

06-12-2008 10:25 AM

HOMEPAGE

Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

you won't catch him Jason......he's got 21 year old fingers, brain and eyes.....you are like 50 or something?

I've realised my shortcomings so I will continue to do really bad 3D and amaze myself but getting into a bit of scale is kinda fun.

This happens a bit when you get older I think....eyes say....uh oh....thats not right....brain says....no it aint..better do something....hey fingers....you there?....yup....can you push the aileron left a bit....I SAID LEFT YOU IDIOTS....some time today would be good....yeah yeah hold on man...dont go getting all hissy.

Jonnys eyes are connected to his fingers directly and he's moved the sticks before seeing anything anyway.

I will still try to change to the nipple gripper method as it feels good in some instances. I certainly like it for hovering (thats huvvering for you jason)

06-12-2008 10:43 AM

JAGNZ
rrProfessor
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Thanks Glenn, I just ruined a perfectly good pair of pants pissing myself laughing. Even though it was at my expense it was damn funny. LOL.

Jason Greenwood

Fury Extreme, T700N, 2X T600N's, Trex 500, DSX9 2.4
www.3dheli.co.nz

06-12-2008 11:43 AM

HOMEPAGE

Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

any day you laugh is a good day....even if it's taking the piss out of yourself. adds years to your life!!!

cheers dude
G

06-12-2008 11:49 AM

Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

Quote
Thanks Glenn, I just ruined a perfectly good pair of pants pissing myself laughing

Oh dude.....that happens when you get older too although i aint no where near that yet

06-12-2008 11:51 AM

JAGNZ
rrProfessor
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

First flights at the field today using pinch. A bit odd but by the 3rd flight it was feeling better. I think I am going to be able to stick with it this time. My flying definitely took a few steps backward but I am working towards the future. I had to remove the expo I had programmed when I was using thumbs. I couldn't get the speed I wanted with the expo in, plus with pinch I simply don't need it.

Jason Greenwood

Fury Extreme, T700N, 2X T600N's, Trex 500, DSX9 2.4
www.3dheli.co.nz

06-14-2008 08:49 AM

HOMEPAGE

JAGNZ
rrProfessor
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Ok, an update for those not asleep yet.

I'm at about 90% of my old ability using pinch now. Getting easier every day. My flying IS smoother and I have removed all expo except on Rudder. I am happy I switched and it has not been quite as hard as I expected. Thank goodness for Phoenix is all I can say.

If you are considering switching, I can highly recommend it.

Jason Greenwood

Fury Extreme, T700N, 2X T600N's, Trex 500, DSX9 2.4
www.3dheli.co.nz

07-12-2008 10:48 AM

HOMEPAGE

w.pasman
Elite Veteran
Location: Netherlands

I started pinch but converted to thumb after about half a year because I had the precision but needed more speed on the stick. Took me several months to get used to it.

07-12-2008 10:58 AM

HOMEPAGE

JAGNZ
rrProfessor
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Just add positive Expo if required.

Jason Greenwood

Fury Extreme, T700N, 2X T600N's, Trex 500, DSX9 2.4
www.3dheli.co.nz

07-12-2008 11:07 AM

HOMEPAGE

4 pages [ << < 1 2 ( 3 ) 4 NEXT >> ]

1935 views

POST REPLY

Mikado Modellhubschrauber	.	GrandRC	.	CanoMod
	.		.

Main Discussion > Thumb to Pinch - how long?

Olli-Pekka Mahrberg
Senior Heliman
Location: Finland, Joensuu

I flew my Caliber m24 (which was my first heli) with thumbs but changed to pinch when I got my first plane. Pinching feels more ergonomic and smoother.

07-12-2008 01:18 PM

HOMEPAGE

PilotDaz
Veteran
Location: Seattle, WA

As a 20 year thumber that converted to pinch about 3-4 months ago, I can honestly say I'd never go back. I was skeptical but gave it a try and I feel like my flying is becoming far more accurate than it did in all the previous years.

The conversion took about 1 month to become comfortable with.

~Team Collective Mayhem - "My anger management class really PISSES ME OFF!"

07-14-2008 08:05 PM

Marty55
Senior Heliman
Location: Spokane, WA

Ive noticed all older people who start flying fly pinch. All younger people fly thumbs.

I play video games so thumbs it is for me.

07-14-2008 11:09 PM

Cornster
Senior Heliman
Location: Thornton, CO USA

I started out flying thumbs......

Flew that way for about 12yrs. One day I had a miss-hap, doing a split-S with no mistake room my thumb slipped off the stick right after I rolled over and pulled 90 degrees down. Yup, dirt torpedo.

Went to the pinch method right away, felt VERY forgein. Felt that way until I stopped worrying about it. Can't say 'It took me X long', but it eventually became normal. Sure, you loose a little speed with the pinch, but the precision is a HUGE improvement.

Going pinch from thumbs can be very frustrating and uncomfortable, but if you stick with it, it will get natural.

P.S. Oh....and I am a gamer as well. I develope video games for a living. So thumb flying isn't just a "youngin' thing", it's typically the way folks start out. Tends to feel more natural that way.

I fly.....because I can.

07-14-2008 11:36 PM

HOMEPAGE

JAGNZ
rrProfessor
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

I agree 100%. It felt so un-natural for me at first but with each flying session it feels more natural, to the point that when I tried thumbs again just for kicks it felt strange. I guess that means I am really getting used to pinch now.

I just hope I can restrain myself from progressing too fast and taking a dirt nap because of an old thumb reflex.

Jason Greenwood

Fury Extreme, T700N, 2X T600N's, Trex 500, DSX9 2.4
www.3dheli.co.nz

07-14-2008 11:44 PM

HOMEPAGE

Cornster
Senior Heliman
Location: Thornton, CO USA

About the only place I have ran into a hurdle with the pinch method is when doing piro-flips or kaos. VERY hard to make a clean, consistant circle with the pinch, so easy to do cleaner circles with just my thumb. But that being said, I am getting better. Just requires a bit of patience and taking your time to figure it out.

I fly.....because I can.

07-15-2008 12:01 AM

HOMEPAGE

blazen
Senior Heliman
Location: California

I am so tired reading all this disinformation and crap revolving around Thumbs VS Thumbs and Forefingers.

It's all nonsense!!!!!!

If your a good pilot it makes no difference whatsoever. If your a bad pilot it won't help you at all. In fact there is only a few situation where thumbs and forefingers is actually beneficial. Other then that the fact is.

Thumbs only, is is not only far more accurate its faster and provides a greater range of motion then does thumbs and forefingers. I have been teaching people how to fly for over 30 years. The thumbs and forefingers method was originally used to teach excessively nervous students. We used to only teach thumbs and forefingers to timid nervous pilots. Pilots who were so afraid to fly they would tremble on the sticks. Adding the forefinger helped in dampening out the trembling thumb but severely limited the students speed and range of motion. When transmitters finally came out with exponential we where finally able to correct for the lack of range and speed by adding exp and making the sticks more sensitive around neutral. The problem in doing this is reduced resolution. As an instructor to this day I still watch students fingers as they fly. If they trembles a lot or they show poor coordination as a result of nervousness I will switch them to thumbs and forefingers.

The accuracy of thumbs only vs thumbs and forefingers was finally scientifically established by the V.L.A. Corporation in cooperation with the USAF. At the time I was Vice president in charge of prototype development. We were developing low cost vertical take off and landing RPV's. In conjunction with a major RC control manufacture we developed a proprietary computerized training station (simulator). In the evaluation mode used for testing the speed, accuracy and dexterity of potential test pilots the computer would randomly place targets on the screen the object was to use the RC unit to place a dot on the target. The dot simulated a model helicopter in its instability and required the coordinated use of all controls. End results thumbs only pilots where about 250 percent faster and over 500 percent more accurate then thumbs and forefinger pilots. The test pool was comprised of over 500 experienced RC model pilots and 500 USAF personnel with no modeling experience.

The final conclusion was that all benefits associated with the thumbs and forefingers vs the faster more accurate thumbs only method was simply subconscious, When people where told it would make them better pilots they where more willing to push the limit. The fact remains that testing has shown that thumbs only is faster and more accurate.

That being said we also discovered that the top 5 percent tested where just as fast and accurate utilizing both styles.

If you are a great pilot it does not mater. On the other hand if you are an average pilot with good coordination and good confidence then the speed of thumbs only might be better for you. Now if you suffer from a lack of confidence or uncontrolled trembling fingers or extreme nervousness thumbs and forefingers is a must.

I hope this helps end the ridiculous disinformation associated with thumbs vs thumbs and forefingers.

07-17-2008 01:01 AM

JAGNZ
rrProfessor
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

It comes down to what works better for the pilot and it would seem that for the average pilot, it does make a difference in precision. I can SEE and feel the difference in my flying and I was not a timid or nervous pilot before. There is a reason that MOST top pilots fly pinch and that is because for THEM it works better. Statistics cannot replace your own real world experiences.

Jason Greenwood

Fury Extreme, T700N, 2X T600N's, Trex 500, DSX9 2.4
www.3dheli.co.nz

07-17-2008 01:15 AM

HOMEPAGE

blazen
Senior Heliman
Location: California

That's just simply not true we are not talking statistics we are talking about military testing and military testing has shown just the opposite. On average thumbs only is 250 percent faster and close to 500 percent more accurate. It's just plain ignorant to think that it's the best simply because the top pilots use it. Most of the top pilots today started using thumbs and forefingers only because of disinformation and fad. According to USAF testing the top 5 percent of pilots tested were just as accurate using thumbs and forefingers as they were dumbs only. In fact the test later on included a single stick and once again after a few weeks acclimating to the new system the top 5 percent were just as fast. Bottom line is the top pilots are good no mater what system they use. For the top pilots its not the rig they use but the instinctive skill and hand eye coordination they posses.

This is the sort of issue that makes the average hobbyists look ignorant. I see the same thing in ham radio people thinking simply because the best use something it must be the best. The problem with this is they are only using one metric in their evaluation. Once again military testing proved that for the average pilot thumbs only was 250 percent faster and 500 percent more accurate. The only time thumbs and forefingers was as accurate or as fast was in the top 5 percentile and these guys could fly anything in fact they where just as fast with a single stick.

07-17-2008 05:46 AM

JAGNZ
rrProfessor
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

I am not saying your test results were skewed or wrong, I am saying that for ME, pinch is better and I am neither a nervous pilot nor in the top 5% (AFAIK, LOL). I am not sure how to explain that one...

Jason Greenwood

Fury Extreme, T700N, 2X T600N's, Trex 500, DSX9 2.4
www.3dheli.co.nz

07-17-2008 05:53 AM

HOMEPAGE

4 pages [ << < 1 2 ( 3 ) 4 NEXT >> ]

1935 views

POST REPLY

Ace Hobby	.	Esprit Model	.	Thunder Power RC
	.		.

Main Discussion > Thumb to Pinch - how long?

PRINT TOPIC

Advertisers

Subscribe to This Topic